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TomRayner

Joined:

Jun 05

Posts: 91

TomRayner says:

Pan Europeans pose "serious" risk says coroner

A coroner speaking at the inquest of a deceased police motorcyclist says that Honda Pan Europeans pose a “serious and continual” threat to lives.Coroner Dr James Adeley said he intends to write to every chief constable in England and Wales warning them of the “catastrophic result” which can occur with the Honda motorbike.The inquest in Lancaster heard Pc Shreeve lost control of his vehicle after it began to shake violently while travelling at high speed.After Shreeve’s death the Pan European was tested with comprehensive safety checks and in one such test an examiner broke his leg and fractured both wrists...

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  • Posted 8 years ago (30 April 2007 10:19)

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SarahC

Joined:

Oct 06

Posts: 256

SarahC says:

comment posted on behalf of Deve Stewart

This is exactly what happened to me some years back on a demo ride out from the Hop Farm that Chambers of Rochester organised (except I would say we were doing around 50-60mph in fast convoy). I was on a dark green Pan Euro and we were going round a gentle left country-road bend and I sudden hit a dip in the tarmac - It wasn't an agressive dip, but the I couldn't explain why the bike acted as it did to almost go into a resonant weave. I managed to slow down quick enough to control the bike somehow (I still don't know how), but the whole thing really freaked me out at the time, as I couldn't understand why it happened. I have heard a muttering of this a few years ago, but nothing more until now. Worth Honda testing this out I think. Rgds, Dave

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ManxNorton

Joined:

Oct 02

Posts: 180

ManxNorton says:

Thoughts are with ...

Along with Tony Bliars 'I take full responsibility' a pretty meaningless phrase. What PC Shreeve's family will require from Honda is cash, and lots of it, to at least compensate them financially from the loss of this wage-earner. Furthermore, Honda should agree to compensate the tax-payer, who funds the Police Service, by refunding the full purchase price of the machines supplied to the Police, to the Exchequer and recalling the bike. Nothing less will do for an honourable company such as Honda.

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robertmj

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 6

robertmj says:

Here we go again......

A lttle bit of "googling" reveals that if the ACPO recomendations (don't know what they are but suspect these are to do with machine loading) are followed the bike cans still be used in service.

Aside from the obvious tradegy of the death of the rider and the effect on his colleagues and family, lets look at the weave issue. Ever since the bike was released some people have complained of a high speed weave, and many comparissons have been made against the "old" Pan ST1100. The main comparisson often ignored is the significant reduction in the wheelbase, and the "sportier" geometry of the front forks.

I have done approx. 50,000 miles on two ST1300 Pans (one pre-recall original) on twisty European roads, fast motoways, and while the bike has a little bit of "nervousness" when in the wake of an articulated lorry, the rest of the time it feels really stable. It DOESN'T have the on rails feel of the older model, but I'm certain that is due to the reduced wheelbase, and in return you get the much sportier back road handling which for a bike of its size is excellent. One thing I have found a lot of people do though is wind the rear pre-load up, often because one magazine or another says it improves the handling. Well if you add too much rear pre-load without enough weight on the bike you will raise the rear, effectively steepening the fork angle. This gives the "improved handling" stated by many sources. This improvement is in fact just a more responsive front-end. Now given that Honda have already made the ST1300 more sporty, it is quite likely they have pushed the bike towards the limit of geometry for a big tourer (as opposed to a lithe sports bike), and when pushed further by raising the rear........ the bike bites back.

I suggest those of you who suffer from weave try backing the rear pre-load off fully (or as far as you can without bottoming occuring), check the tyre pressures and then go for a ride. Yes it'll feel "squidgy" at first, but once you are used to it you'll find you can sythe through the corners just the same as usual, and you'll have the triple added benefits of more stability at speed, increased comfort, and reduced tyre wear.

Mike Roberts (UK)

http://tshirts.mjrproductions.co.uk

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SarahC

Joined:

Oct 06

Posts: 256

SarahC says:

comment posted on behalf of a reader

Regarding the Honda ST1300. Has anyone considered the ambulance paramedics who ride these bikes and carry far more weight then police officers?

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SarahC

Joined:

Oct 06

Posts: 256

SarahC says:

comment posted on behalf of a reader

I purchased a new ST 1300 in 2002, the year I retired, it was to be my dream all round bike for the forseeable future. The first instance of there being a problem was whilst riding it close to 120mph, the bike began to feel unstable it began to weave during and following a long sweeping compression corner whereby I closed the throttle which only made matters worse, I throttled up again and allowed the bike to slow down gradually and the weave disappeared, thinking that something unusual had caused this reaction I stopped checked the bike and took the bike back up to 120+mph again on a straight part of road and the same happened again. As it only occured at high speeds I lived with it knowing that the bike had to go back to the the shop for various recall work ie sump replacement, heat shields and the re-torqueing of the recommended engine end swinging arm bolts. Following the recall work during which a new pair of bridgestone 020 tyres were fitted,(the mileage was just over 2000)I was heading for a 6 day tour of Ireland, it was soon apparent that things were not satisfactory, the weave had moved from high speeds to around 70 to 80 mph, yes you are right the average speed for cruising in this country. I returned to the dealer, but it was the usual answer from Honda, rider error, "no sir, our bikes don't do that", I was so disgusted with the whole affair I cut my losses sold the bike(at a considerable loss) and moved on. I am now in the bike trade and I have spoken to a number of ST1300 owners, one thing is sure there is a weave issue, it is mainly discovered by the more spirited riders of the early bikes, ie it normally shows at speeds over 100mph, a speed that a fair number of Pan riders will never see so we will never know if their bikes would weave or not. Finally, our local constabulary, banned the use of all their ST1300s following a series of monitored test rides requested by themselves(after a couple of major scares)and carried by Honda staff, that has now left them with the ludicrious situation of only having suffient ST1100 traffic bikes for a third of their trained and designated officers(they have ordered BMWs, which they are having to wait a considerable time for). What would the local tax payers think if that bacame common knowleadge. I find it difficult to beleive that a multi-national company such as Honda would hide from an issue where the safety of one of their premier models was under serious question, or am I just being naive.

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Dubsmannie

Joined:

May 07

Posts: 1

Dubsmannie says:

Lethal Pans

I am quite sure Merseyside plod are very happy that the coroner said that ‘Honda Pan Europeans pose a “serious and continual” threat to lives.’ I’d be a happy employer too if equipment I’d ordered modified and issued to an employee that subsequently failed catastrophically and killed him was deemed to be nothing to do with me. Life must be sweet on that particularly grassy-green side of the fence. Their insurers must be sleeping easier too. Imagine the scene slightly differently if you will. You significantly modify a friend’s bike which they take out then loose control of at excessive speed. They are tragically killed in the ensuing multi-vehicle accident. The police clear you and your friend of any blame in the following investigation and instead point their finger at the manufacturer of the bike. I’m pretty sure Honda UK wouldn’t take that lying down, but then, they aren’t likely to have sold you 450 Pans are they? This whole round of legal pass-the-parcel is nauseating and both Merseyside Police and Honda UK should be ashamed. Honda’s failure to address the issue (apparent from the earliest versions of the bike) is arguably nothing short of murder. My heart goes out to the family and friends of PC Shreeve killed while training to doing his job better. I can't believe this story hasn't generated more debate than it has in the motorcycle press either. Shame on us...

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Mr.Number

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 179

Mr.Number says:

Pans

I think some of the people who have expressed opinions about honda, should read the story again. What the inquest heard is that the motorcycles in question, that pose a risk, are used by, and within police forces, and which are fitted with heavy equipment. This added weight has disturbed the bikes gravity balance, clearly making it unsafe at high speeds. Im sure that if it was any other manufacturers tourer/sport bike, it would still be affected by the additional weight that the officer needs to do his job. Any focus on blame should be directed towards the people involved who took an active role, in the risk assessment of whether the additional weight had the potential to cause such a tragic event. Those people deemed the bike safe to ride, in all types of riding situations, the officer may find himself in. How wrong those people were, and this death is evidence of that. I also note, that previous complaints had been made by officers regarding this problem, yet clearly they are still riding the bikes. Plenty of ammunition for the family here I feel, who have my sympathy.

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