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Anonymous

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Chris Newbigging  says:

Dustbin Ducati

You wouldn't believe it but  the motorcycle underneath this bizarre hand beaten metal dustbin fairing is a Ducati Monster! The bizarre creation was seen being used by an untraced rider in the US, so little more is known about the machine, but it's hard to imagine the air-cooled engine getting much cooling air through the enclosed aluminium body! Click here to see...

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  • Posted 7 years ago (10 January 2008 10:29)

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snave

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 439

snave says:

Cooling..?

"but it's hard to imagine the air-cooled engine getting much cooling air through the enclosed aluminium body!" Really..? One of the major benefits of the `dustbin` fairing was that it acted as a pressure boundary layer between inside and outside of the fairing, promoting laminar flow and INCREASING the pressure differential between inside and outside of the fairing. This airflow creates a low pressure internal airflow, which then speeds UP exactly in the manner of an aircrafts wing, so actually increasing internal airflow rather than reducing it. LOW pressure = FASTER airflow. Unless the underside is also fully enclosed, there is no reason to presuppose that the air-cooled motor would be anything other than enhanced by the addition of such a fairing. Indeed, by reducing turbulent flow in and around the cylinder head you might even find hotspots are reduced... And as a substantial proportion of cooling effect is also provided by the flow of air PAST the rear of the machine, the improvements wrought to rear-end aerodynamics may also provide a fillip to cooling potential. Perhaps a little more technical knowledge would be a good thing before commenting?

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FostersMonster

Joined:

Aug 07

Posts: 4

ooooooooooooooh

who took the jam out of your doughnut!!

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ida71

Joined:

Sep 07

Posts: 8

ida71 says:

Cooling ? You need Eyes !

Well the large air intakes at either side of the nose cone are obviously there to slide bread in to make toast & not for cooling then !!!!! As a wise man once said "look before you speak" :)

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davidh36

Joined:

Aug 06

Posts: 322

davidh36 says:

Cooling system

Yes i agree!

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mousemat

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 4

mousemat says:

re cooling

speaking as an aero engineer, you've got that almost entirely back to front. the fairing almost certainly will do nothing but cause the cylinder heads to heat up. there will be no increase in airflow around them. there will be an effect like an aircraft wing, but it will be on the outside where the air will be accelerated, not the inside. the shape of the inlet and outlet suggest a large build up of pressure inside the fairing which will only cause air to flow elsewhere (the path of least resistance basically as the higher speed air has lower pressure OUTSIDE of the fairing). that't not to say the cooling will not be adequate, but it will certainly not act to increase the cooling. Besides anything else, turbulent flow is far more efficient at heat transfer than laminar flow due to mixing. The Nusselt no (heat transfer coefficient) is (O)Re^0.3 in laminar flow and (O)Re^0.8 in turbulent so it is in the interest of whatever is being cooled to have turbulent flow wherever possible...not laminar...

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snave

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 439

snave says:

Er,

What you're saying is that it's not me that's got it wrong, but the like of North American, Lance Neibauer and Burt Rutan..? :) The P-51 Mustang achieved a useful boost in thrust and a reduction in engine temps by designing the exhaust system for the radiator in just the same way. The Columbia 350 and 400 were so effiecient as designed by Neibauer with close-coupled tight fairings and optimised internal airflow that even with 20% LESS vent area than other GA with similar sized engines, the twin turbocharged AIR-cooled Columbias run cooler than the competition. So good in fact, that Cessna bought the company! And what you're suggesting - as an aero engineer - is that the first man to put a privately-funded, privately-built manned spacecraft into space knows nothing about thermodynamics? Wow, however did we manage? The turbulent flow is of no use unless you can dispose of the generated heat. The proximate cause of the turbulent flow is the inefficient design of the internal aerodynamics of the current crop of fairings, which are designed as marketing instruments, not aerodynamic tools. It is a plain and simple FACT that, when unfettered by notions of market acceptability and idiotic rules and regulations, the dustbin is the shape that a motorcycle fairing makes to go faster, better, using less fuel. As an aside, the design also makes the improvement to engine cooling I previously described. That is a matter of fact, not discussion. And hsould be known by ANY so-called motorcycle journalist. I expect the late, great John Robinson is turning in his grave at the initial statement, as I remember when EMAP employde journalist who actually knew what an engine was, not merely replicated the technical PR BS spat out from the marketing mens Apple Macs. Anyway, it shold be easy to prove - find the bike, stick it on a hot highway alongside a naked Monster, fit both with measuring equipment, and let's see... Now that would be journalism, not idiot-speak.

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mousemat

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 4

mousemat says:

silly

This is getting a bit silly. The designers of the p-51 knew exactly what to do with the hot air from the radiator - in fact, as you point out, they put it to remarkably good use by using it to generate thrust. This is known as the meredith effect and is (unfortunately for the dustbin) only a measurable effect at or above speeds of around 300mph stp. this is mainly due to compressiblity and the low temperature and density of air at altitude. Now, unless there is something special about what is going on inside this dustbin that is not visible to the naked eye, i don't think this is going to be a relevant effect in this case. as for the cessna 350s etc, i don't know enough about them to comment about their radiator design, but i never said it wasn't possible to cool efficiently with fairings, simply that the fairing as designed in that bike were designed badly and wouldn't have the effect you describe. for what it's worth, fairings, when properly designed (as they usually are as poor aero performance in a bike will usually result in danger to the rider) can have all the effects you mention thanks to lower drag (as i'm sure any biker can attest to), but sadly this has nothing to do with gaining extra thrust at high altitudes and speeds.

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