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Anonymous

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Neville Riley  says:

Speed Limits and the IAM

I have been riding/driving for over 52 years, so I am not a young tearaway. Having covered over two million miles with only a couple of minor accidents you may think I know something about road safety. I passed my IAM bike test in 2006 but I am seriously considering resigning from the IAM. When renewing my membership I am...

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  • Posted 6 years ago (12 March 2009 11:37)

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parapanfan

Joined:

Apr 06

Posts: 2673

parapanfan says:

Pile up

I had to stop at a cross roads due to a massive pile-up in front of me - at least half a dozen bikes all from an IAM group.

One of my colleagues, also a biker, resigned his membership after that.

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peterca

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Dec 02

Posts: 9

peterca says:

I was put off pursuing an IAM test after reading arrogant comments from an IAMer regarding someone's accident many years ago. A few years later I was knocked off my bike on the M25 when in the middle of a lane when a van to my right indicated right and pulled right into me. When I retold my tale on a bike group, yet another IAMer commented that it was "probably" not my fault -- too right, the van driver had not slept for 24 hours prior to knocking me off and suffered from a medical condition. He coughed up a week before it was due in court. Ever since I've had the continual feeling that IAM thinks you'll never have an accident if only you pass their test. I also thought their insistence on not signalling all the time was purely to enable them to assess you during the test. But that's not the case is it? They advocate not signalling when you think you don't need to. Sadly, I'm not a diety with an all-seeing eye so fundamentally disagree with a system which encourages you not to signal.

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iancol

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Sep 07

Posts: 1100

iancol says:

Speed limits and training

You can train people till the cows come home but you can't make them ride/drivesafely.  Those who do Bikesafe, IAM, RoSPA, etc probably do it because they want to be safer, enjoy riding more and possibly save on insurance.  There may be a few who use the knowledge gained to get nearer the edge.

However, making training compulsory, with associated expense, will not have the same effect.  I've used this joke before (apologies if you've heard it), but it still applies:

How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?  One - but the bulb has to want to change! 

Most of the people on the road drive (and a few ride, no doubt) for convenience, not because they love it.  Thye're not interested in the finer points.  My wife's a better driver than a lot I see on the roads, because she's had the benefit of my experience and has been interested enough to apply the lessons.

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parapanfan

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Posts: 2673

parapanfan says:

Perfick car for a back-seat driver!

Here you go Ian :lol:

Actually you're right - I did IAM because I wanted to learn as much as I could and apply my Ambulance driving experience on two wheels.

Many would not contemplate further training once they have their pass certificate, whether on 2 wheels or 4.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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BikerBladerAsh

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 576

sorry

some people have no idea, I am an IAM member and some may also know why, feel free to ask.

The IAM is all about road safety they are not a club or group or whatever, they are a charity.

They are not saying you must stick to the speed limits, they are saying if you want to represent the IAM then you should obey the highway code and not break any road traffic rules if you choose not to that is your own responsibility and the IAM do not condone this behaviour.

Signalling is not a rule, I remember taking my normal test in 2005 and being told not to signal when returning back to the nearside lane on a dual carriageway and to this day i do not. I may do a shoulder check or one technique i use is point, if you are moving back to the nearside and will be moving infront of a car i will point with my left hand.

I cant be bothered to write anything else. If you want to be a better and safer rider then do it. if you dont want to and think you already know it all (maybe you do but how do you know) then dont pay £110 to potentially keep you alive.

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peterca

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Dec 02

Posts: 9

peterca says:

BikerBladeAsh said:

"I may do a shoulder check or one technique i use is point, if you are moving back to the nearside and will be moving infront of a car i will point with my left hand."

 

FFS. One technique I use, readily understood and not misinterpreted by other road users, is to is use my indicator.

 

 

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peterca

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Dec 02

Posts: 9

peterca says:

To BikerBladeAsh:

You've adequately described why I won't have anything to do with IAM. I'm trying to think what your thought process must be when you're wanting to return to near-side after an overtake. Could it be something like...

Shoulder check shows there's a car approaching, damn, I want to return to near-side, damn, can't use indicators as I've been brainwashed into believing they're bad for superior riders such as myself, damn, what can I do, the roundabout is approaching, damn, I know, I'll point with my left hand.

 

Perhaps you can elaborate on this system for us mere mortals and whether you consider a car driver's defense having crashed into you as not seeing you indicate would be an adequate defense for them?

I never rely on car drivers seeing me indicate. However, I'd have even less reliance on car drivers seeing and interpreting my left hand moving or pointing. Neither do I indicate every time. However, I still use my brain and would only fall back on hand-pointing if my indicators weren't working.

 

 

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GSAShrek

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 1

GSAShrek says:

Anti-IAM prejudice and miss-information

I just love the way ignorant people get hung up on such small and trivial matters rather than discussing the big picture.

With regard indicators the IAM have one simple rule:

You only need to use your indicators if it will be helpful to other road users. What they do ask, is that you think about and plan all your actions including if an indicator is necessary and not just do things habitually. The IAM also applies the same rules to riding, that you should have a suitable plan of action for each and every road hazard and use forward planning and good observations to keep your self out of trouble.

What worries me is all this anti-IAM prejudice and miss-information will put people off getting advanced training.

If you think you know it all and have nothing else to learn then don't bother with any advanced training (and good luck to you). If however, you think there is room for improvement, then what are you waiting for. Get some advanced training with who ever you like, RoSPA, IAM or a private company, but do it anyway.
I've read the remarks about riding gods, arrogant people, Hendon shuffles etc... but to be honest, I've seen all these traits and more, with many individuals and groups of motorcyclists, not just the IAM.
 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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BikerBladerAsh

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 576

peter

if you intend to move to the nearside and a car is there and you no longer have space to move and you want to take first exit at the fast approaching roundabout then you have not planned correctly, so you ask yourself what do i do, well you either hold back and move behind the car, or make sure you enter the roundabout first and get over to the left asap. If you dont know what you are doing then you will put yourself in these tricky situations. Advanced training prevents this because you are planning so far in advance you wont be waiting to move over til oops shit crap theres a car there moment, you have just described a perfect example of how advanced training could make you better erm well safer.

the use of indicators is explained perfectly by Shrek.

What i said previously was when actually training to take my bike test the instructor said you indicate out to the outside line but not when coming back in, this is nothing to do with advanced training. At the end of the day if you need to put you indicator to let other road users know your intentions then use it, if there are no other road users in sight then why would you signal, there is no one to signal to.

also the highway code i believe states that if your have no indicators arm signals can be used, just like a pedal cyclist for example, when they change lanes they point with there arms, its something road users do everyday, i normally point when in heavy slow moving traffic, this is a clear and simple way of letting someone know you intend to move in front of them from being in the outside lane or maybe filtering and need to move over, for a turn off.

Also the planning advanced training teaches means you could pretty much travel accross a busy town one side to the other without using the brakes and only using them when coming to a complete stop and even then this is minimal because planning on the approach to lights should be minimising this.

you wont understand this technique until you are taught or made to try it.

and trust me it makes you a lot quicker and a lot safer, because its all down to planning.

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peterca

Joined:

Dec 02

Posts: 9

peterca says:

My approaching the roundabout scenario was a bad example of trying to understand why you would consciously make the decision to point with your hand rather than use your indicator. Indicating is the "clear and simple" way. I still don't understand why. You neatly turned that into a discussion about poor planning.

I agree with what you say there about bad planning. I see this so many times with car drivers trying to push in on the approach to roundabouts, sometimes at speed, when they should stay in their lane, continue to the roundabout and go round it to get to their missed exit.

As for indicating, I would never presume to imagine that I'd not made an observational error and missed another driver or pedestrian. So I fundamentally disagree with an encouragement not to indicate. It would seem from an earlier comment that IAM also gets "hung up" on trivialities -- that of excessive(?) signalling. I am well aware of the highway code and its hand signals. But pointing is not expected behaviour from motorcyclists, indicating is, whereas hand signals are expected behaviour from cyclists since they don't have indicators (whether they signal or not, or stop at red lights is another matter).

Your comments about travelling across town with minimal use of brakes is perfectly understandable to me as I tend to minmise my brake usage when out riding anyway.

My background is in mathematics and I have a keen interest in the physics of motorcycle riding. I have a good library of motorcycling books, including advanced riding techniques, so I'm far from ignorant but do not claim to know it all. I certainly intend taking an advanced course, it simply won't be with IAM.

Perhaps if you IAM members are worried about anti-IAM prejudice and misinformation (which seems to be quite prevalent although these could be chance observations), you should take a long look at yourselves and ask how you can make IAM more attractive to those looking to further their skills, and what it is about IAM that is offputting to so many.

 

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