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Steve Farrell  says:

Cycle group fights motorcycles in bus lanes

A cycle group has renewed a call for complaints about a trial of motorcycles in bus lanes despite growing evidence it hasn’t affected safety.  Six months into the 18-month trial Transport for London (TfL), the capital’s transport authority, has said it is not aware of a single collision between a motorcyclist and cyclist in a bus lane. Yet the London...

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  • Posted 6 years ago (09 July 2009 14:02)

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Aug 02

Posts: 5

cherub1 says:

Reply to LCC

My reply back to LCC

The fact that you are campaigning against motorcycles using bus lanes is inflammatory in itself.

What gives cyclists the sole rights to using bus lanes.
Do they pay road tax?

Show me the documented evidence which proves that motorcyclists are a danger to cyclists in bus lanes.

Get cyclist's professionally trained before they can use the roads. Some of them are a liability. They ignore the rules of the road that all other motorists abide by and consider themselves above the law.

I have been threatened and abused by them whilst using the lanes on my bike for no apparent reason other than they think it belongs to them. I cycle too and frankly there is a serious fundamentalism arising from the LCC. This puts me off cycling more as I wish not to be associated by your pontificating, self important attitudes. This attitude shames me onto my motorbike instead.

Motorcycles in general are not a problem whilst I cycle but other cyclists are and also the moped/scooter riders. Generally those who are untrained and poorly aware of their own vulnerability. Cyclists should be enforced to carry wing mirrors on their cycles and use the things. I have them on my cycle as it is important to look behind you when you pull out of traffic. I would also urge strong policing of cyclists who insist on ignoring traffic signals and frequently put their life and mine in jeopardy.

In short bring back the cycling proficiency test prior to being able to ride on roads and do not allow L plate riders into bus lanes or allow them onto the roads during the rush hour. Training saves lives.


Jan Johl (with thoughts and comments from my dear friend Mark Glover)

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Aug 02

Posts: 5

cherub1 says:

LCC Reply to my reply!

Their reply to my reply (still formulating a response to this one)

"The fact that you are campaigning against motorcycles using bus lanes is inflammatory in itself."

No it isn't - it's called democracy. I was asking for specific inflammatory statements, and I'm still waiting.

"What gives cyclists the sole rights to using bus lanes?"

We're not asking for sole rights to use bus lanes. We're happy to share them with buses, which are slow-moving and provide other benefits to large numbers of people, though we'd rather not share them with motorbikes, which are fast-moving and discourage people from cycling (I have hundreds and hundreds of emails stating this fact).

"Do you pay road tax?"

Vehicle excise duty doesn't pay for roads, any more does than the VAT on a Mars bar does (check, if you don't believe me) - though as it happens I did just pay VED on my van last week. It helped pay for my free parking space outside my house (worth several thousand pounds per year), and the upkeep of the roads that I damage every time I take it out, and the motorways that I use occasionally, and many other privileges besides.

But no, I don't pay it on my bicycle - my bike doesn't cause congestion, doesn't damage the roads, doesn't even use the hundreds of miles of motorways that cost billions to build, doesn't emit CO2, air or noise pollution. And it also helps keep me healthy reducing the burden on the NHS, so making mine and your taxes lower.

I suppose you could call this "self-important pontificating", though I'd call it rational argument. I notice your website claims to offer "environmental and sustainability excellence" along with "low carbon consultants, designers and project managers", so I imagine you're pretty on the ball with the environmental issues I'm talking about.  

I take on board your comments regarding safer cyclists. I wish all road users - cyclists, car drivers and motorcyclists - could be a bit more considerate, though to characterise cyclists as the only lawbreakers on the road is a joke. Go and stand by any busy junction and count the cars that bust the red light. Or stand on the A23 near me and watch the minority of motorcyclists making life a misery for the majority of cyclists. All road users are guilty of infringements, though cyclists' misdemeanours don't cause thousands of dead and seriously injured every year.

Finally, LCC doesn't claim to represent all cyclists. Even using the general term 'cyclists' is misleading - there are half a million cycle journeys a day in London, and cyclists are as diverse as Londoners themselves. Riding a bike has nothing to do with supporting LCC - it's just another way of getting from A to B.

Whatever method you and your friend choose, I wish you a safe journey.



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Dec 03

Posts: 317

hairyMuppet says:


I think you go caught yourself out there, especially as you could not show examples of inflammatory comments or factual innacuracies. But congrats for actually doing something and trying to open a dialogue.

What the LCC is campaigning for is not in itself inflammatory, they are entitled to their opinion after all. What is in question is whether or not this opinion is based on fact or prejudice. From what is known so far it would appear that the LCC opinion is in error with regards to the facts and working on prejudice; although we'll have to wait for the end of the trial to find out.

If cyclists are in fear of bikers being in bus lanes (and that is quite possible) then the LCC is duty bound to educate their members and allay those fears, the fact that the LCC are not doing this would appear to be remiss. This presumes that bikers in bus lanes reduces the overall cyclist accident rate, of course. If we increase the overall accident rate, then the proposal should be loooked at again. All based on the *facts*.

Perhaps there is more the the motorcycling community code do to ally cyclists fears? I am sure that have as many preconceived ideas about us as we have of them.

Mike does come a bit of a cropper with regards to VED IMHO. It may not be hypothected, this is true, but he then goes on admit that VED does pay for roads as it forms part of the total government tax revenue. My personal concern with cyclists is not VED, but insurance. Are they insured?

He further admits that it is a minority of bikers that are making cyclists lives a misery. What can we as a group do about that minority then? They're pissing in our pot and making our lives difficult, never mind the grief they are casuing the cyclists. And for what it is worth, it's a minority of cyclists who are dicks as well (and before people reply "Oh not it's not" do think for a minute - the dicks stand out, these are the ones you remember; same as how the general public form their perception of bikers).

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Apr 09

Posts: 5

gunnut says:

When cyclists have to pay road tax,and mot and insurance,THEN maybe they can complain,till then,they should shut up!

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Aug 06

Posts: 6

maclariz says:

I've already made a note on th LCCs own feedback form.  Basically, I'm based in Glasgow so I'm slightly out of this, but I cycle and also use the motorbike.  I wouldn't dream of hassling a cyclist whilst on the motorised version.  In fact this morning whilst doing the town speed limit I was undertaken by a cyclist, but I was aware of him and left him plenty of room.  It would be better for me if I could use our bus lanes in peak times, but at the moment I have to try and stick to the rules, even when I am being undertaken by cars illegally using said bus lanes.

As I see it, if we want to be able to use bus lanes, it's up to us to behave ourselves and ride sensibly with regard to all users.  Unfortunately, a few dumpties causing trouble will derail this for all bikers.  We need to get across that there is a big section of bikers and scooter riders who are basically sensible commuters who are just using a fast, low CO2, low congestion method of getting to and from work and that riding in bus lanes provides a much safer alternative to filtering in many circumstances so should result in a reduced urban accident rate for bikers (and reducing the accident rate for bikes is dear to the government's heart).  This may sound boring but the public image of bikers is often dominated by either the weekend racer types or the black leather clad cruiser riders, and the sensible commuter types are often hidden from view.

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Jul 09

Posts: 2

unobtainium says:

  I've ridden bicycles for 66 years, & motorbikes for 53 years, and like just about all of us on 2 wheels, I respect all others on any form of 2-wheeler. We are all aware of each others' vulnerabilities, and need to present a united front to those who make motoring laws, because, frankly, they (usually) entirely forget us when drawing up their legislation. You know the usual ignorant assumptions : two wheelers don't need to lean over until they are going fast, therefore we can put road humps at the entrance to a side-road, we are always speeding, etc, etc.

  Sadly, the LCC seem far more intent on fighting us over an imaginary phobia, than in protecting our combined interests. They remind me of the South American Aztecs & Incas who fought the Spanish invaders. The natives were far more interested in using the invaders' help in defeating their various hated rivals, than in defeating the invaders. As a result of the LCC's insular attitude. I don't feel that they really represent cyclists' views, & would not bother to join them. They just seem to be a collection of old crackpots. On the other hand, motorcycle groups try to consider all two-wheeler interests, and so I support them. Don't forget that, LCC, when you need more support one day.


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Jun 09

Posts: 2

figjam6659 says:

Cyclists and Motorcyclists in Bus Lanes

As someone who has driven buses in London's bus lanes, my greatest concern is not with motorcyclists who can maintain their speed at or near the posted limits but with cyclists who cannot: there have been numerous occasions when I have passed a cyclist, had to stop for a bus stop and then had the cyclist pass me on the footpath while I've been loading only for them to struggle up a hill in front of the bus, weaving across the lane to prevent the bus from making progress.

It's also worrying that they use bus lanes designated solely for buses rather than those shared by buses, taxis and cyclists. Why are they not obliged to follow the law with stringent penalties for infringement that could lead to them being banned?

When will someone be brave enough to tackle the issue, already mentioned, of cyclists ignoring red lights? It's not just those who ignore a red light while on the carriageway but also those who will mount the footpath and then use a pedestrian crossing before riding back out in front of motorists who are obeying both the law and the Highway Code.

I have never been held up or sworn at by a motorcyclist while driving a bus within a designated bus lane: I wish I coul dsay the same for cyclists!

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Jun 06

Posts: 15

gnasher328 says:


...and cyclists wonder why they are the most hated road users.


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