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Anonymous

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Guy Procter  says:

How the Honda VFR1200 should have looked says designer

“It’s like a hippopotamus” says British bike designer John Keogh, deriding Honda’s new VFR1200 as “Pug-nosed, disappointing… the wrong direction – not a patch on the two bikes [Blackbird and VFR800] it replaces.” More info on the Honda VFR1200 The VFR1200’s designer Teofilo Plaza says the bike represents the “highest achievement” of Honda’s engineering and styling departments working in unity. But...

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  • Posted 5 years ago (06 January 2010 14:23)

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deaks25

Joined:

Apr 09

Posts: 46

deaks25 says:

I actually worked out what this VFR1200 is trying to be. I had to remember this is the 'Bird replacement, the Pan replacement is later (VFR1200T) shaing chassis and engine, with the Varadero 1000 being replaced by a VFR1200X, sharing the engine. What the VFR1200F is trying to be is an traditional Sports Tourer. Think Triumph Sprint ST, i.e. a fairly sporty bike that can tour very well, much like the old VFR750/800 could. The problem is, a bike is expected to be able to do many jobs, not just sit in one segment, with the excpetion of Litre & Super Sports. As for the Original design, it looks far to concept-y. It happens with cars all the time: a beautiful, awesome concept comes out, but when it hits production, it looks only vaguely like the concept, for all manner of reasons and I'm sure Honda had reasons for the changes here. The idea of storage in the 'tank' is great though, shame that didn't go through.

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MeanMachinex

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Dec 09

Posts: 88

MeanMachinex says:

stormati

sprint st very smooth looking bike, I like it

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ilprofessore

Joined:

Jan 10

Posts: 1

ilprofessore says:

to jonnyrocket

the VFR 800 not Vtec is lighter than 1996 VFR 750, about 18 lb (8 kg) lighter.

The look instead is arguable: I also prefer RC36II, but 800 is quite good (better than CBR-XX for example).

The bike proposed by John Keogh is a common bike, nothing to say about its style.

It is simply a "generic" bike: do you like a generic bike? Me not.

 

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rok1679

Joined:

Nov 05

Posts: 9

rok1679 says:

vfr

This one is ugly too.
For me it is not a design what is wrong on the new VFR.
There are other more important things:
-small fuel tank
-practical storage room ?
-central stand not included
-heavy ( don't want 180 kg bike, but this is too much )
-PRICE !!!
-it is not busa or zzr killer
...
I think the biggest mistake was made in too inapropriate marketing - so the customer expected too much.

Sorry for bad English.

 

 

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rok1679

Joined:

Nov 05

Posts: 9

rok1679 says:

Rear lights

As for design. If they wantet to make something totaly new and shocking: Why the hell are the rear lights the same as on VTEC VFR ??? Did they run out of imagination there ?

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rok1679

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Nov 05

Posts: 9

rok1679 says:

Black ?

And most of all I am missing black color :)

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wablackbirdpilot

Joined:

Jan 10

Posts: 11

Why don't Honda know better?!

I like your alternative design sketch, better than the new VFR. What annoys me most about the new VFR is how supposed industry leaders (ie. Honda technos) present us with something and tell us blatantly that it's something else. In their promo fluff, Honda assure us they 'have delivered a combination of sports and touring capabilities using the latest technologies' and 'a clean-sheet interpretation of the ultimate road-sport machine – a concept driven by extensive understanding of customer needs and the adoption of state-of-the-art technologies'.

Sports? Perhaps, from the reviews I've read, it kind of ticks the box. Touring? - nope. The most basic features of an effective tourer are lost with the small tank capacity, then add the weight factor and the range problem becomes even worse.

Hmmm. Well, why the hell does it weigh so much?  I know someone can offer me a list of techno gizmo wotists, but my Blackbird weighs 223KG, my old VFR was 200KG. How can Honda justify that extra 40KGs on the Bird which, let's face it, is no lightweight. Maybe Honda have secretly been harnessing Harley technology!  And is this 40KGs of techno the reason why some sucker is going to pay 11,500 - 12,000 pounds? I wonder if this technology is just excess, you know, from the 'just because we can' school of thinking. 

Extensive understanding of customer needs?

From reading various Blackbird / VFR forums, the popular concensus points towards the negative. Blackbird owners looking forward to a replacement (and have endured several false dawns re. promise of a new model) place their faith in the creators of their beloved, and suddenly feel very let down. Many speak of realy looking after their Birds so they last forever, or worse still (for Honda), looking elsewhere.

Is the VFR trying too hard to be a jack of all trades and master of none, or to quote Honda, 'many things to many riders' Is there a danger that once the dazzling fireworks of the big launch have faded the new machine will sit there like a white elephant, and efforts to entice us with price reductions and offers of various free accesories / kit inevitably follow? 

Whatever, there was something very flawed at the very root, the conception of this bike which sits before us today. Heavy, expensive, short tank range; visually ugly in my opinion, although some will like its front heavy look-likeness to some past BMWs .

Who will buy it? The deep pocketed type who can't resist the latest 'thing'? Perhaps. The die-hard Honda rider whose loyalty, let's face it, is going to be tested. He may have raised an eyebrow at the sight of that oddity the DN-01, but with the new VFR his concerns for the brand's welfare may linger for longer. 

So why don't Honda know any better? These are the same people who brought us the stunning VFR Fi (97-01) which I rode fully loaded with my wife down to France. Or the Blackbird, my present bike whch hurtles like a black shooting star along the wide, empty lanes of rural Western Australia. And they present us with this.THIS! All wrapped up in pretty words and marketing razzamatazz. They have stolen the Honda sports tourers loved by so many over the years and turned it into something unrecogniseable, something in which form and function have collided and shattered into fragments. And with that so many peoples' affection for the Honda may be lost.

A fundamental re-think and redirection needed by Honda? What do you think?

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evilamnesiac

Joined:

Oct 05

Posts: 535

evilamnesiac says:

Wablackbirdpilot

The Blackbird and VFR weights you quoted are dry weights, the blackbirds kerb weight is 253kg, the VFR800's is 244kg, The shaft drive adds a fair chuck of flab to the bike.

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wablackbirdpilot

Joined:

Jan 10

Posts: 11

Dry weights / wet weights

Thanks for that info. Dry weights / wet weights - the comparison of weights between models doesn't really matter so long as they are either all dry or all kerb weights! :sunglasses: 

Do you have anything to say about the rest of my comments? 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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ginz

Joined:

Dec 04

Posts: 11

ginz says:

vfr 1200

I had 3 blackbirds and 4 vfr's so I think I understand the potential for the replacements.

WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT.  You heard it all ;

LOOKS, TANK , PRICE, NO COMPUTER, NO SELECTIVE POWER, EXTRA FOR LUGGAGE, EXTRA FOR CENTRE STAND, NO SHOW AT THE SHOW, NOT EVEN JUST ONE VFR !ETC.

Anyway I had one on order, paid  my deposit but was so DISAPPOINTED AND I CANCELLED MY ORDER.

SUCH IS THE ARROGANCE OF HONDA THAT THEY DID NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE MY LETTER !!

So, with Yamaha taking all the silver, Honda models in every class being out done by the competition they just sit on their hands, what a crying shame.

Beaten by

R1200RT against Pan

Sprint against VFR

R1000RR & R1  against Fireblade

K1300s & Kawasaki against VFR 1200

HONDA HAD IT ALLBUT WHAT NOW. . . . . . . . A SPENT FORCE !

 

 

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