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Anonymous

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Steve Farrell  says:

Teenager “almost dies” in bike test crash

A woman “almost died” after crashing while attempting the new motorcycle test, according to witnesses. The 18-year-old stopped breathing and was rushed to hospital with a suspected broken neck after crashing at Chester Multi-Purpose Test Centre last Tuesday. She survived because a driving instructor who happened to be present knew the procedure to get her breathing again, said her father, who arrived...

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  • Posted 5 years ago (19 March 2010 12:16)

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bbstrikesagain

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Nov 08

Posts: 879

cardiffmc

Nice to see a slightly more reasoned case, put across in more reasonable tone, but when it comes to my earlier post, there is no contradiction!  Let me explain.

The Mod 1 test is here, right now, has injured many people and may yet kill.  It needs looking at, if for no other reason then because of the crazy notion of a minimum speed without feedback and with no dependence of weather, grip or vehicle performance.  It's giving people the willies, people who trainers think are up to it, and as a reult they're crashing.  That defines a stupid implementation of a test, however well intentioned it may be.  The basic principle (of demanding a swerve) seems entirelyt reasonable, but there need to be some sensible variables and safeguards.

The 3rd Directive is on it's way, subject to consultation.  In other words it isn't yet implemented, and yes it could, if sensibly implemented, save lives.  It will further delay young riders' access to the most powerful machines, and that might well help, especially with young male riders, as long as you don't deter them from riding altogether.  Personally I think most riders should cut their teeth on lower powered, easy to ride, sit up and beg, machines, with fairly gradual progression to animals of twice the weight, ten times the power, and an interesting take on rearward vision.

However, attemoting to reduce KSIs by killing an industry and desuading people from riding certainly wouldn't be my ideal and what's more, it may have the opposite effect.

Did you know that if you increase the total number of a minority category of vulnerable road users, then the total KSIs in that sector can actually fall as a result?  Best of all, the lower KSIs are shared amongst a larger number of users - double whammy.  Similarly, if box drivers were more used to seeing us, all year round, at every end and turn, then their expectations and active looking-out for us would only increase, leading to reduced collisions between us.  The same notion has been reasonably well proven for pedal cyclists.  Conversely the reverse will be true too - as our numbers fall the hazard to each of us will increase disproportionately!

So, time to fix the test, get involved w.r.t. the Third Directive, and promote our wonderful means of travelling about the place.

What puzzles me, is your absolute faith in the mod 1 test as it is...  Is any radical new thing ever so good that it can't be improved?  Maybe you invented it and will defend it to the hilt come what may?

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Dumptruck

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Sep 07

Posts: 529

Dumptruck says:

Whats....

an ATB?

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Dumptruck

Joined:

Sep 07

Posts: 529

Dumptruck says:

Whats....

an ATB?

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Dumptruck

Joined:

Sep 07

Posts: 529

Dumptruck says:

you only have to answer the first question

:blink:

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cardiffmc

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Mar 10

Posts: 48

cardiffmc says:

nothing new 2/2

 

 


You want to know why I go off and rant, its because you are not listening to the industry you are being led along a path you know nothing about, by people who are blind to the fact they are wrong.


Mod1


Is a substantial improvement on the old practical test and is in noway shape or form a danger to students. The motorcycle training industry should not be held to ransom by the likes of MCN and again I am going to be rude here but you are of course qualified in this field and you have first hand experience of how this all works and in no way have had you view shaped by the British bike press.


I could copy and past all I want to say but I would rather you looked up the two surveys that both say there is no correlation with power and the accident rate's. In fact when people harp on about there never being any need to “swerve: they would do well to read this report.


http://www.writetoride.co.uk/RISK_AND_MOTORCYCLING_161109_v.3.pdf


The report continues “However, motorcyclists were also at fault on some built-up road accidents because

riders lost control due to excessive speed, slippery roads, inexperience etc. Accidents on non built-up

roads were found to be mostly the fault of the motorcyclist and were often due to ‘loss of control’. Over

two-thirds of the accidents on non-built-up roads involved larger engined ‘sports’ bikes (i.e. over 500cc)

(ibid), but research in the UK and Europe has demonstrated that engine size or brake horse power is not the principle cause of crashes.



Last but not least if you want to blind people with waffle head here.


http://www.iam.org.uk/images/stories/downloads/Motorcycling/IAMmotorcyclist_Report_v7.pdf



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cardiffmc

Joined:

Mar 10

Posts: 48

cardiffmc says:

nothing new 1/2

First and fore most re-read all my old post's. Serious you have not taken on board the fact that what we do is not risk free, we ride on two wheels it is inherently dangerous, all we can do is manage the risk we can not be held responsible for some bell end fucking up with the brakes because he/she doesn't want to waste there fifteen pounds.

Do I have faith in mod1.

Yes I do, I have taught it for a year now and never had a problem with the hazard avoidance.

I have had a student face-plant the tarmac on E-stop though, second run through panicked and snapped the brake on. i have had more than one do it on road in the last twenty years. I repeat we can only manage the danger, hazard avoidance is a safe way of teaching a critical maneuver to all students.

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cardiffmc

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Mar 10

Posts: 48

cardiffmc says:

lol

Approved training body and if you wondering what KSI is, it's killed or serious injury :blink:

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des077

Joined:

Mar 10

Posts: 6

des077 says:

DSA Dont care

We all need to realise that this goverment wants bikes banned, so if you make the test very difficult and dangerous you stop new people coming into biking, we then become a minority and thus an easyer to target.

Personaly i think its shameful, this goverment and its bodies are full of incompitent idiots, no wonder our country is in such a state, we need to reinstate the previous test standard and if europe dont like it, well thats there problem.

1kmh what a joke thats about 0.6mph you wouldnt even notice that.

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cardiffmc

Joined:

Mar 10

Posts: 48

cardiffmc says:

MCN don't care

 

The DSA don't care, you are right they don't and if you look closer to home you will see MCN working closely with them in damaging the training industry with there rabid reporting of mod1.

As for reinstating the old test. No thank you, I like the new test and it is a really good way of teaching a critical maneuver every one is quick to moan about safety and even quicker to moan about 1mph. If safety is your true agenda then you will shut up and let us get on with teaching Mod1, go to your local ATB spend a few hours with them and find out what we really think about it.


Dare I say it but I think the standard of rider that comes out of the new test process is better that a lot of bikers with a life time of riding and I would quite happily put you up against one of my students to show you how much better they are.

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cardiffmc

Joined:

Mar 10

Posts: 48

cardiffmc says:

what gives you the right to begrudge me a living?

 

Mike,


in truth you have no idea how mod1 works, all you can do is rant on about how you are the true guardian of riders rights and im sorry to say you couldn't be further from the truth, I have been involved in riders rights from the late seventy to present day, I was there in the early eighty's for the first Hyde park demo and most major demos since then, I am an instructor with twenty years teaching behind me and fought tooth and nail to stop mod1.

The best part is that the bike press really where quiet and only became vocal about 6 months before it came in............. fig-er that out if you can.

Was I happy first time I taught mod1..... nope it scared the crap out of me, but after 12 months teaching it I can honestly say that its easy and that most people who fail put a foot down on the slow maneuvers. I really cant remember the last time I had someone drop or throw the bike down the road and as I have pointed out all I can do as an instructor is manage the risk, so not doing maneuvers on road is a good thing, as for the Hazard avoidance and controlled stop exercise the main problem you have is the bike press convincing every one that its a swerve and E-stop exercise


I have not had one person crash on the hazard avoidance exercise. Not one.

The bike press are not listening to the professional's on this matter, they are quoting here say and urban-myth and unfortunately for us Joe public has brought it.


Last but not least I have a right to earn a living and I am sorry that you feel I should be ostracized for that but my right to earn is no more or less important than yours, why should you begrudge me a living to support my family?

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