Motorcycle Forums

Darren

The scenario you describe is not untypical and could be described as a "technical" offence. In the first instance I think you need to be asking yourself this:

Can you prove that you neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance at the time you were stopped?

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 (sect 143) the onus is on you is to prove that you were insured at the time rather than for the prosecution to prove that you weren't.

If you are able to say that you have never received the letters sent out by Hastings Direct then I would suggest that you have a point to argue as a lawful defence but equally you need to be able to provide some form of evidence that you complied with the requirements to send in that proof of "no claims".

I have just had a look through the various pages on their website,the online copy of their car insurance policy and their terms and conditions and cannot find it written anywhere that you are obliged to provide written evidence to them of you previous "no claims". The only thing I can find relating to "no claims" is under the " Acceptance Criteria" but again that does not refer to any written proof or the need to submit it upon request. That said there are sometimes differences, for whatever reason I don't really know, between policies obtain via the phone and the internet and without physically seeing your paperwork it is hard to make judgement. You have obviously looked through what documentation you have so go to the Hastings website and see how things differ.

How did you pay for your insurance? Was it in one lump sum or in installments? If it was by monthly installments have any further payments been taken since that date of cancellation? If they have then there is again a potential to argue that you have been paying for a service and without having knowledge of your poicly being cancelled you have assumed that you were insured.

From what you write it sounds as if you were given a fixed penalty notice at the time. If you are going to argue the matter using the defence laid out in Sect 143(3) then you have the legal right to take the matter to court and do not have to pay the £200 or submit your licence for endorsement. If you surrendered your licence at the scene don't panic as the FPN acts as your licence in the mean time... so don't lose the ticket!

With regards to your car being seized the only way to get this back is to basically get yourself insured again ASAP and get it out of the pound. There is nothing that you can do other than pay this fee, it is not a fine but a statutory payment for the recovery and storage of your vehicle, but do keep all receipts and documentation regarding this as there is potential for claiming this back IF you challenge the no insurance matter in court and get found not guilty.

I think you need to look very carefully as to what has gone on and I would suggest you take full legal advice if you are going to challenge this matter in court. Even if you ask the matter to go to court but enter a guilty plea on the day you will atleast be in a position to submit any mitigation you may feel appropriate. Just be prepared that any fine you receive upon conviction is likely to be more than the £200 FPN as there will be costs incurred etc.

Let us know what you think... good luck!

Good to hear...

the news and that Hastings have admitted that they are at fault and that you have taken legal advice. Wait until yo hear back from them and then get things put in place to get that FPN cancelled i.e get a written confirmation letter from Hastings saying that they had cancelled the policy in error and that you would have been covered with the minimum of third party liability.

Let us know the outcome

Heard elsewhere..

...on another forum someone said:

"Isn't it the case that if you physically hold the Insurance Certificate then the insurance company can't deny 3rd party liability - hence you technically (and therefore legally) do have insurance cover?

That's why it's a specific offence not to return the Certificate on demand"

Is this right, if so then I am covered as I have never been asked to return it. Presumably they'd have taken further action by now if I'd failed to respond to a request to return it?

...continued from above

After this I was passed onto the complaints department. I inquired about how they initially claimed not to receive my no claims declaration/previous insurer details then suddenly they knew about Equity Red Star who the previous policy was with. The lady said that this was from my initial internet application, possibly I misunderstood this the first time but this seems to have chopped and changed a bit. I then inquired about the talk of “mistakes” and apologies during my first conversation with the cancellations people, she said that this meant mistakes were made by someone but not them, either myself or Equity Red Star apparently.
She went on to explain that Equity Red Star could find no trace of me on the 12th of January when they enquired? I asked how was it that over 3 months later on the 15th of April a old fashioned high street broker in Swindon got all the required details over the phone from Equity in only a few minutes with just a name and address? She said she didn’t know and that I must have given the wrong details in my initial application, which is where the details would have been taken from. However the details on the Equity certificate match those on the Hastings one along with all my other official documents perfectly, I pointed this out and the response was basically “I don’t know, they couldn’t provide them at the time“. Asked why I wasn’t contacted by ’phone at this point (Because lets be honest, they might’ve got themselves a higher premium) and she told me the procedure was contact by letter and it would be unfair to have phoned me as they do not phone other customers, I think she was basically asking why I thought I was special. I enquired as to why the other methods of contact were listed if their procedures were for contact to only be made by letter? After much waffle I received no answer to this.
I asked if their policy was to make merely enough effort to satisfy their procedures and “to hell with the little man”? She stressed that this was not the case. Throughout this conversation I brought up the fact I was going to find myself with a criminal record due to them going no further than their normal procedure and the response was of consistent disinterest. Throughout the conversation I made much mention of the Ombudsman already being involved and hinted at legal action in the future, she implied that the fault lied with Equity Red Star. I asked if she thought that in that case, should I decide to take legal action should I take it against Equity if anyone and her reply implied this was the best idea!
At the end of the conversation I got the standard pre-programmed ‘Thank you for your input and suggestions, we take them on board and will consider them at any future reviews of our procedures”. I merely thanked her for her time and said that I wasn’t getting at her personally.

Continued on next post...

insurance

Hi Darren,

As your solicitor suggests, this is indeed an absolute offence. You were cleary driving without insurance whether it was your fault or not. There is no grey area. The only answer is mitigation through the courts.

Kind Regards,

Jack