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Anonymous

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Graham Moss  says:

Un-marked Police bikes in Kent

Police riders are patrolling main biking routes in Kent and East Sussex on un-marked sportsbikes and deliberately encouraging riders to speed before pulling them over. This is not new news but last Sunday, 13th June Police riders stooped to a new low! They were out cruising around and (seemingly) innocently joining in with riding groups. Unsuspecting bikers where then caught on video speeding...

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  • Posted 5 years ago (17 June 2010 12:03)

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robotninja

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Mar 09

Posts: 14

robotninja says:

if a copper "encouraged" you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?

Jeeez. I thought we were all supposed to be adults - and by "adults", I mean "responsible for our own behaviour". If you want to break the speed limit, fine - I know I do on a pretty much daily basis - but I'm man enough to know that it means keeping half an eye out for plod and that if I get a ticket, it's my own fault for getting caught.

As for getting into willy-waving contests with other random bikers on the road, well... I think that says it all.

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chrkmn

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Jan 10

Posts: 2

chrkmn says:

Encouragement = What?

It's one thing to speed sometimes and get caught. It's a whole other thing when officials are out disguised and ENCOURAGING such behaviour. That sounds like entrapment to me. I'd take this up with a solicitor and see if there is a case against it. There has to be. What will be next if we don't stand up against it?

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exsup

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Jun 06

Posts: 43

exsup says:

Unmarked

West Mercia have three bikes all Honda and all unmarked one Red one Blue and a silver one they also have a dark  blue VW Chaved out with chrome wheels and big bore exhaust

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vstromtrooper

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May 10

Posts: 25

Robo

100% agree with you. I would never try to match the speed of bikers I didn't know and in fact I wouldn't with my mates if they were going a bit too mad. It's easy, faster bikes are coming up behind you or are behind you, move over and let them pass. It's simple common sense and good riding. If you are on a bike and can't think for yourself, and ignore "encouragement" by other bikers (regardless of who they are / may be), then you need to assess your apporach to riding. YOU are sooposed to be in control.

Also, if you are pulled and you have done something wrong, take it on the chin like a man / woman.

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nessychris

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Aug 02

Posts: 139

nessychris says:

Slimey Coppers

deserve to be done themselves! They are doing this to us several times a day, so it must follow that this copper who is following WITHOUT blues on untill the last moment is also breaking the law for some distance. As far as moving over is concerned, I have it on good authority that one Susuki mounted sod attempted to get bikers to overtake him so he could add to the three or four he had on the camera already.

If you get caught FAIR & SQUARE then take it I agree, this just smacks of one rule for him etc.....

 

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DJCALVERT

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Feb 09

Posts: 42

DJCALVERT says:

are far as i know, the law is, a police officer cannot speed unless his lights and or siren is in operation, i.e he's heading to an emergency. all i can say is those in power always abuse it. take the damned politicians for instance. these speeding fines probably pay their expenses. anyone who gets caught by these officers should take note of the number plates then splatter them across the front page of the mcn warning any other unsuspecting riders of the iminent trap. in fact is it entrapment coercing someone into committing a crime?

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Bikefar

Joined:

May 08

Posts: 96

Bikefar says:

Entrapment

If the police are encouraging motorcyclists to break the speed limit with the intent of booking them for it, isn't this some form of Entrapment?

On the other hand, I was heading South down the A404 this morning and turned off to go West along the A4. Whilst lining up to turn off the intersection a muppet in a black BMW (who had come from the Northerly side of the A404) saw me coming (I could SEE he saw me coming), but muppet pulled out anyway, across my path leaving me to take avoiding action.

These unmarked motorbikes can have a determined effect on road safety by getting the muppets off the road and not have to indulge in Entrapment at all. Or maybe these unmarked bikes are not a road safety measure??

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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V900KAW

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Oct 05

Posts: 2

V900KAW says:

Speed exemption is for "Police purposes". If you can't spot the plod don't race em, deal with it.

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arryace

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Apr 10

Posts: 198

arryace says:

common misconception

the police do not need to display blue lights or sound their siren to exceed the posted limit the exemption is for 'police purposes'

if you race another bike and get caught then thats tough, copper or not there is no justification. this is not entrapment it will be proven that you had 'Guilty intent' surely the fact that you think it is not a copper makes it worse.

in the UK entrapment is not a substantive defence in the sense of providing a ground upon which the accused is entitled to an acquittal.

 

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Grimbeard

Joined:

Mar 03

Posts: 58

Grimbeard says:

Police purposes...?

As I understand it, 'police purposes' covers operational necessity such as pursuing an escaping speeding vehicle, attending an emergency call as quickly as possible, VIP escort duty, etc. It would therefore not cover, for example, 'seeing if I can get this 'biker to speed up so I can book them'. However, I am only in my first year of studying law (I'm actually a psychologist) so someone better qualified please do correct me if I have misunderstood. If someone can provide a correction, without wishing you to do my studies for me, a reference to the relevant statute, case law and/or ACPO or Home Office guidelines would be very helpful.

One thing my law textbook does say is that 'The law is that if you incite another person to commit a crime you are equally guilty if he does so.' (Hatchard & Fitzpatrick, 2009, p. 42). I'm not sure whether that is a statutory or common law (I'll need to check with my tutor), but it would seem to imply that even if an officer is allowed to speed in order to 'catch' you for speeding (i.e. legitimate police purposes) if they have incited your offence in the first place then they are equally guilty of your offence. This might be particularly important if they charge you with a more serious offence, such as dangerous driving.

BTW, for anyone who thinks this is purely a theoretical or hypothetical legal principle, it is the exact same one that was used to convict - and execute - Derek Bentley in the 1950s.

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