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IsraelsRSV

Joined:

Feb 11

Posts: 113

IsraelsRSV says:

Hairy Corners!

I would like to start a new Form on "Hairy Corners", to find how often this happens to other riders and how they deal with it.

Now I have been riding bikes since the age of 13. Did my bike test at 18 and have worked my way up to an RSV Millie. But even now (much less often than my earlier years) I still find myself with my heart bursting out my ears, when having gone to fast round a corner, where i am either on the wrong side of the road, almost becoming red paint on a country sign-post, or leaning so far over the footpeg has bounced off the deck throwing back up into these dangers anyway. I know this happens less when your calm and confidant when riding. But I also know it happens to other riders as I'v seen it happen when sitting behind people on pasier runs.

So how can we deal with this in a way that doesn't involve tensing up stiff, or locking the back wheel up and bouncing round a corner, facing a car head on, riding into a feel, or death?

Come on old guys, we know You've lived to tell the tale. How did you do it and how do you correct it?

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  • Posted 4 years ago (28 February 2011 18:14)

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theprof

Joined:

Jan 11

Posts: 19

theprof says:

Hairy corners

Oh dear!!

There arent any hairy corners in my book. There are plenty of hairy riders though.

Its simple slow in fast out, fast in shit out. You should be positioning yourself for the best view into the bend, at a speed that you can open the throttle slightly as you turn in, and then power out as soon as you see the exit. You go where you look so you MUST look to the vanishing point , ( limit point ) which is where the two sides of the road converge (look it up). As soon as you go into OH SHIT mode and start looking where you dont want to go , guess what! you are going there.

You need to start practising going in slower and coming out faster. If its the other way round you have messed it up. Take a lower gear on the approach. Try not going faster than your ability too.

Also the bends should be linked together, just because you were great on the first one doesnt mean a thing if you cock up number 3.

You dont say if you are riding alone or in a group. If its alone then its easy to work on. If its in a group then start riding on your own as you wont learn it watching someone else mess it up or following their tail light.

Find a series of bends and do them in a lower gear without braking, so you are using purely throttle control. Do them a few times and build your speed still not using the brakes. Hopefully that will force your eyes up and get you planning ahead more.

 

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Andyvfr1

Joined:

Apr 10

Posts: 246

Andyvfr1 says:

Wrong idea.

Youve got the wrong idea on making ground fast.

 

You dont go faster by going into a corner faster (well you do, but more on that later)

 

Its simple, which technique makes more yards? coming into a corner at 60mph, with your suspension and chasis all in their ideal ranges, steering, rolling on the gas through the corner and leaving the corner at 110mph and carrying that speed down the straight to the next corner OR

 

Coming into a corner at 110mph, entering the corner, realising youve gone in too fast, rolling off or braking, destabilsing your chasis, re steering to get back on your line, rolling on the gas again only to find yourself leaving the corner at 80mph, and then carrying that 30mph disadvantage down the straight chasing after your mate who just did it right.

 

You enter a corner faster ONLY when you know the corner, you know what line you want to take through it, you know where you want to end up, and you know you need to enter the corner faster to carry more speed through the corner to EXIT the corner with more speed.

 

Its ALL about setting yourself up to go faster in the fast bits.

 

Theres loads of techniques to avoid getting yourself into a sticky situation, and basically it all comes down to knowing the road/track and having a plan. If you have no reference points, have no chosen line through the corner, no braking point, no turning point, no nothing, your riding alot slower than you could be, and your crazzyyyy!

 

Your first time down a road/ first few laps of a track should not be giving it everything you can, you should be saving your attention for learning the road/track and not for trying to react to the suprises your encountering.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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IsraelsRSV

Joined:

Feb 11

Posts: 113

IsraelsRSV says:

Good advice

As i am ever looking to improve on biking skill, i'v been watching alot of IOM dvds and youtube videos on improving body position, and although the only times i'v nearly lost it in the past few years has either been in the wet or a road i dont, I'v realised where i am on the bike is all wrong! I sit with the pegs in the arch of my foot, and my bumm firmly on the seat. Could body position have alot to do with it? I have no chicken strips on my tyres and i have buff marks on my pegs, but have never got my knee on the deck and as i understand, knee down is just a sign of good body positioning. no?

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Steveyman

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 610

Steveyman says:

Survival instinct

Some good points mentioned previously.

We all as humans have a form of survival instinct,

 when we have a sudden suprise from something unexpected we usually panic. When we panic we go tense or even look at the danger in fear of hitting it known as target fixation. When cornering, if a bike is setup for the corner correctly i'e in the right gear for the speed and leaned over, with the rider also leaning into the corner and with steady throttle, the bike will go around a bend no problem at all.

We as riders are the ones that cock it up, when we realise we are going too fast we panic and the survival reactions kick in, we go tense, shut the throttle, brake and do everything we shouldn't.

The only cure is prevention, as said before, in slow and fast out.

You must be confident in what you are doing, know your tyres, suspension is set correctly, road surface and camber, right speed/gear, correct positioning, limit points and you go where you look, so keep your head up look for the limit points.

I have been caught out a couple of times myself recently, I quite enjoy riding in the wet and even on a nice twisty road that I know I have been caught out with mud on the road at a blind bend, completely without warning. You cannot see it until you hit it, the only solution is to anticipate the risk of it happening and reduce speed so that you can slow down or stop if you have to.

It's a real bummer, because it can ruin a nice smooth flowing run in the wet, but hey it's better than coming off!!

Hope this helps and take care.:smile

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Andyvfr1

Joined:

Apr 10

Posts: 246

Andyvfr1 says:

As far as body positioning is concerned:

Knee down on the road is really just for showing off.

On the track its used as a lean angle measure, you dont really need to do it unless your running on the edges of your tire and dont want to go off them, but it looks cool and its kind of confidence inspiring so most people do it anyway.

 

Anyway, heres the ideal way to take a corner in my opinion, im trying to remember css technique as much as i can, we'll assume your coming off a straight and going onto one:

 

1. Know your braking point, as soon as you reach your braking point, begin braking and start looking at your turning point, brake hard early and lighten up on the brakes as you get closer to your turning point (most people brake harder and harder as they get closer to the corner)

 

2. Set yourself up for the turn before you turn, toes on the pegs, inside toe pointed outwards, knee out, half your arse off the seat, just before you reach your turn point, switch your vision to your apex, as you hit your turn point, turn as quickly as possible and in one movement, i tend to move my upper body towards the inside mirror as i steer but i dont know if this is right haha.

 

3. As soon as your done steering (i dont mean when your out of the corner, i mean when you have the bike cranked over) start rolling on the gas to transfer weight to the back wheel and obviously to build up speed through the corner, you have to roll on suprisingly alot to even maintain speed as the act of steering slows you down.

 

4. Before you hit the apex change your vision to your product, the point you want to leave the corner at (basically) and start to straighten the bike back up for your straight. You dont have to use all of the track, dont run to the outside of the track just for the sake of it, run as tight as you can for your speed so you know how much faster you can go before your running off the edge.

 

Notes: Through all this your weight should be supported by your legs/outside leg and not on your hands, the bars are for inputs, not for supporting your weight or holding on.

 

Also, i make no claim that i can do all of the above, certainly not consistently, but you have to know where your going to get there.

 

Also, use common sense when applying the above, dont just roll on the gas if your going to die because of it, e.g your wide on thecorner and its off camber and youll be straight off the far side of the road/cars front if you gas it, just dont chop the throttle.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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DaytonaBloke

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 2

DaytonaBloke says:

Hairy Corners

To paraphrase Valentino Rossi, there are four ways to take a corner:

  1. Slow in, Slow out
  2. Slow in, Fast out
  3. Fast in, Slow out
  4. Fast in, Don't come out

If you stick to 4. you'll get hairy corners every time. Personally I prefer number 2.

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yoyo100

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 103

yoyo100 says:

Bikesafe

Do a bikesafe course, best thing I ever did, it might be ROSPA but it'll get you on the right line and you'll be a hell of a lot quicker.

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kaioxygen

Joined:

Oct 10

Posts: 60

kaioxygen says:

Hairy Corners

Make sure you're in the right gear. You'll find you'll go a lot faster knocking it down a cog and really powering out rather than gliding it in top gear and barely hanging on around the bend.

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andyms999

Joined:

Oct 10

Posts: 21

andyms999 says:

IAM skills for life

Hi mate,

You seem to have been on bikes for a while, I also suffered some of the same issues. I reccomend you do the skills for life program with the IAM. They will teach you a system of riding that not only keeps you safe but will ensure you are as progressive as possible. Its not about high viz jackets and BMWs....

For cornering very briefly, you should apply the model of IPSGA

Information

Position

Speed

Gear

Acceleration

Make sure when you enter a corner you use the information pahse to look at road, surface, hazards such as turnings, vanishing point. you then need to get your position right early for the corner, get your speed right and be sure you can stop in the distance you can see in front of you, and stop on your side of the road. Keep your speed constant going into the corner to maximise grip,get the gear right so you dont have to change up or down during cornering and destabalise the bike. Accelerate once you can see right through the corner and it is clear to go.

THe other advice is spot on from other posts. Try to slow down and get the sequence right, dont be in such a rush to get into the corner fast. Take it slow and work on positioning and come out of the corner fast when you see see its safe a clear. It makes all the difference.

Also try to get a copy of Roadcraft (amazon.com) it the Police riding system (also used by the IAM) it will give you an excellent bible from which to work from

Stay safe matey

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