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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Yamaha can cope without Rossi and Furusawa, says race boss

Yamaha boss Lin Jarvis is adamant the double blow of losing star rider Valentino Rossi and the major engineering influence of Masao Furusawa in the space of a few months will not hurt the Japanese factory's bid for a fourth successive MotoGP crown in 2011.Rossi quit Yamaha at the end of 2010 to complete a big-money two-year deal with rivals...

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  • Posted 4 years ago (04 March 2011 12:06)

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supermario

Joined:

Dec 09

Posts: 2494

supermario says:

You've got it bass ackwards

You need to step back and look at the problem as a whole. No rider is gonna turn round and say, hey, I think we need a V5 motor. The rider is gonna say, hey we need more power but without losing torque and driveability. The engineer is then gonna turn round and say, hey maybe we should be looking at a V5 motor. And then if he has a factory behind him that trusts what both the rider and the engineer are saying, the motor gets produced. So although the rider has no say in exactly what gets produced, it is his direction and needs that are met by whatever the engineering department provide as a solution to a particular problem, whether it be an engine configuration, or a carbon frame.

I'm sure this was true of Rossi and Yamaha. Rossi didn't get out of bed one morning, pick up his phone and say, Jezza! I think we need a crossplane crank. No, he would have been asking for an engine that drives well out of corners, goes up the straight like a stabbed rat, and dosen't chew up tyres. Infact as I recall Furusawa had 3 different engines for Rossi to choose from before the 04 season. Furusawa as an engineer obviously felt that a crossplane crank could produce what a rider needed, but what works on paper dosen't always work in the real world. Rossi chose the engine with the crossplane crank, despite not being the fastest in a straight line, and thats what Yamaha ran with due to Rossi's direct intervention. Had Rossi chosen differently, then we would never have heard of it.

As someone else has stated on this thread, succesful racing is a team sport, which is absolutely right. You need to have a talented rider who can give accurate information and have an understanding of what the bike is doing. This is the hardest part. There are no guages or instruments to measure how a bike feels to a rider, its all down to experience, instinct and pure talent. You need a competent chief engineer to translate the needs of the rider into an engineering solution, and you need to have a race department in a factory that trusts the rider and engineer, and that has the impetus and skill to produce what is being asked for. To achieve success at the level of competition we are currently seeing in Motogp, all of these elements must be in place. But as I have stated before, the initial direction must come from the rider.

With regard to Suzuki, you're right, they're not throwing the resources at it. And I think the reason they are not doing that is because they know it'll be a waste of money. And thats because without a top drawer rider to give top drawer direction they have no hope of success. Once they have that they need a top drawer Chief engineer, and then a factory with the money and impetus (do you feel like you've been here before?) to produce what is being asked for. But it all starts with the rider.

You only need look at Honda to see what happens when development philosophy is factory led. Honda have the engineering skill and money to produce race winners. But because they don't look to their riders for direction (probably because the quality of information is so variable) they haven't won a championship since 06. Having said that it looks very possible that they could win this year, but look how long its taken someone as big as Honda to get it right. Then by comparison, look how long it took Yamaha to turn things around at the end of 03. Because they listened to their rider first and foremost

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5451

Nostrodamus says:

Frothing at the mouth Wosideg

Classic sign of rabies - attack being the preferred form of defence. O.K you think Ducati trellis frames are made of plasticine and can deflect 50mm ending up giving them a negative rake. Fine your perjorative - can't see anybody agreeing with you though. My take? Well I don't claim to be an engineers arsehole, but it does seem to be some sort of harmonic problem, which the Steel Trellis absorbs better than the Carbon Fibre. Something I periodically crapped on about last year. Since the infamous 1993 factory Yamaha's the motorcycling worlds engineering populace has learnt that there is such a thing as 'too stiff'. The balance between that and your end of the spectrum is such a difficult thing to find on such a dynamic item as a racing motorcycle with the range of forces input through it.

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elefantman

Joined:

Nov 03

Posts: 315

elefantman says:

Yamaha boss: WE CAN'T COPE WITHOUT ROSSI AND FURUSAWA!

Now THAT would be a story. I mean, what else is Lin Jarvis going to say?

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5451

Nostrodamus says:

1+1 = 3?

And I quote you once more Wosideg. "did you know under tests they reckoned that the headstock deflected by up to 2 inches or 50 mm from it's static position".

So now you're changing your tune and measuring only half that deflection and not headstock movement itself  as you originally stated but some extrapolated figure along a line from the headstock to the riders bollocks. Hmmmm. I can well believe your sack is only 25mm long. My you do get your yellow knickers all torsionally twisted up don't you now.

Your rationale on one of the reasons for changing to the CF I cannot fault though. The other reason Ducati state is the ability to get a far more consistent build with CF as opposed to welding steel struts.

I'm not taking the piss about any chief engineer position. I'm taking the piss out of you! Did you miss that? It wasn't meant to be subtle.

A big man will own up to any mistakes. I've done it a few times on this site myself. Ah but not our Wosideg, you're just going to continue slathering away......

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chrisg011

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 846

chrisg011 says:

Hahahaha

Now if Mr Jarvis had given a reply such as wosideqs' to the question 'can Yamaha cope without Rossi e Furusawa' I would have laughed my bolloxs off.

you crazy kids ;p

 

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5451

Nostrodamus says:

So black will always be white for you Wosideg?

I do admire the lengths you go to to defend the indefensible. Your bullshit is baffling nobody though me old mucker.

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CH987

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 892

CH987 says:

I think you both will find this equation handy when working out the Torsional value

The angle of the dangle + the degrees of the knees = an erection of perfection.

 

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Elbowz11

Joined:

Nov 10

Posts: 1156

Elbowz11 says:

LOL.

A thread about Yamaha has come into a maths lesson.

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hondarc30

Joined:

Jul 09

Posts: 51

hondarc30 says:

Torsional stiffness of a m/cycle frame

....having had to read the interruptions that Nostradamus and Wosideg have been blathering on about I have added a short one page article from M.Raines PhD Eng. and T.E.Thorpe Phd Eng. to hopefully give both of you an insight into the intricasies of motor-cycle chassis engineering and design. It is abundantly clear you both need an engineering education.

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=m16w4371632362k2&size=largest

A racing motor-cycle starts with the design, engineering and build based on engineering principles, dynamics and human factors. The rider tests and relates the m/cycles dynamic properties and responses to the Chief Engineer who translates this subjective input into fine-tuning of the adjustable features built into the bike. When adjustments outside of the motor-cycles parameters are required a re-design by the engineering team is necessary to accomodate the riders requirements to produce a race winner.

If one of these elements is lacking you cannot achieve consistent race success. This has been Honda's problem for the past several years since Rossi (and Burgess) left. I have no doubt Honda will be the dominant force for 2011 and beyond with Stoner on-board, Yamaha's fortunes will slide and Ducati will be a most serious challenger for 2012.    

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buelligan272

Joined:

Jul 06

Posts: 2050

buelligan272 says:

always right???

hondarc30 your wasting your time some people are never wrong and seem to believe everything they read.
I find it all very amusing though so keep it up guys!

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