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GSXRdreaming

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 41

GSXRdreaming says:

The Future of Biking...?

In the link below you might be about to look at a brand new category to Biking Style. Yes, we have Sports, Tourers, Street Fighters, Cafe Racers, etc. 

Now we have this!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzg0rcMvypM&feature=player_embedded

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  • Posted 4 years ago (14 April 2011 21:40)

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smidget

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 2387

smidget says:

cowboy11

Who said the Jaguar bike was a popular trend, I know I didn't.

 
I notice you ducked out of responding to the manufacturers custom parts for cruisers, tourers, etc, and manufacturers following custom trends.

Electric bikes, wonder who came up with that concept, it wasn't thought of by an individual who had a passion for tinkering in his garage many years ago, or was it?

Never mind, I'll stick with my own thoughts on the subject, you keep yours. After all no matter how they look they are all two wheeled.

What I ride, perhaps you should free your mind and search out the clue.

You have a nice day now and ride safe:smile  

Edited for smelling mistooks.
 

 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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cowboy11

Joined:

Apr 09

Posts: 196

cowboy11 says:

ho hum

bored now....lol
ride what you want ...buy what you want... just enjoy it.
The futures bright... the future is orange
(hmmm maybe that's customisation)

Happy riding and Keep smiling. :smile

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smidget

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 2387

smidget says:

cowboy11

No cowboy not bored, lets just say that in debating it's usual for both sides to respond to each others points of view.

Something you seem to have forgotten, as for your pointed remarks such as 'let it go' 'ride what I want' I'm sorry but you telling me what to do are not worthy points of debate.
Therefore it is of no use debating a subject with someone who does not have the ability to do so in what I would call a mature way.

You have a nice day now.

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cowboy11

Joined:

Apr 09

Posts: 196

cowboy11 says:

smidget

no point in having a debate on this subject as i think we both know we won't be changing our own opinions, therefore pointless and futile.

You believe that people wnat customised bikes, and that is the future of biking. That's great. I just don't agree.... that's all it is.

My points of view are different than yours.
To customise, in my thinking, is to make/manufacture/produce something according to a customers/individuals specifications. A one off if you will. But this comes at a price. Usually far greater than say a mass produced item due to set-up costs and a change in working practice.
Obviously there are people out there that can afford this, but most generally, it is a prohibitive thing. Thereby limiting the customer base, which really isn't what you would be looking to do to keep in business would it. Thus i don't think this would be the future, and i believe this is the conclusion of most bike manufacturers.
Yes manufacturers produce accessories for cruisers and tourers, but they mass produce them, which is surely an oxymoron when the point is to be unique.
So that's my point of view, make of it what you will, in the scheme of things it don't matter a jot.
Hope that was mature enough for you my friend   
Keep smiling ( sorry don't mean to tell you what to do now ) :winkie:
 


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smidget

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 2387

smidget says:

cowboy11

Yep thank you, much better points and therefore warrants a reply. Well we both agree that our opinions will never change and will always differ from each others.


Having worked in the research and development side of the automotive industry for many years, and also having custom built several bikes and trikes from the ground up for myself and close friends my own experience / opinions are as follows.

Customising of a bike does not really need to be hugely cost restrictive, after all, change the engine casing bolts to a coloured set and you have begun the process of customising your bike. In fact change anything from that which the bike came off the production line with and you have customising taking place. 

It is from the sale figures of such parts that a manufacturer will make trend changes to any bike style if they believe this decision will enhance their sales figures for a small cost outlay.

For manufacturers to begin the production of a bike it is the initial preproduction making of parts that cost the most. 

Design, modelling, test fitment, then add in the durability and performance testing by research and development departments, the cost rises, and then add in the cost of changes as the tests progress and find faults / failings. All these processes have their own overheads to be taken into account.

Then bare in mind that a manufacturer has to comply with automotive safety compliance for general public release of their product. It is therefore the manufacturer that has the more restrictive cost outlays.

For the customiser it involves the cost of materials, the work is usually done in a home garage, their time which invariably is not chargeable to themselves. So the costs are far lower than those incurred by a manufacturer. It is only when someone pays for customised parts that it becomes more expensive, but still less than a manufacturer pays. It is only prohibitively expensive to customise when done through the  OCC, Milwaukee Iron, etc. route as they produce the whole custom item.

To back up my point, think back to when the 'trend' was to convert a bike into a 'cafe racer' (in England0, the sales of clip-ons, rearsets, and upswept exhaust systems rose, the Italian and Japanese markets were quick to realise this, so produced small numbers of bikes in this style, they sold well and the current day trend of manufactured sportsbike ownership began. 
So it is from this that my opinion is formed.

You have a nice day now.:smile   


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cowboy11

Joined:

Apr 09

Posts: 196

cowboy11 says:

smidget

touche.....very valid points you make, some (believe it or not) i do agree with.

I would agree that due to research and development, many patrs for motorcycles have altered or been tailored to suit a specific purpose. But to then go ahead and then mass produce these items really doesn't make them unique. (the oxymoron thing)

Take tyres for example, there's ton's of R&D going on there, it's a huge industry, but their products are not custom pieces. I mean if i was fortunate enough to go and buy a brand new motorcycle, and after a time needed new tyres, and fitted some other than the O.E.M i certainly wouldn't be thinking, wow, i've just pimped my ride lol.

I do agree that the engineer/fabricator in his garage has far less operating costs than a manufacturer, and that to change set-ups is relatively easy in comparison, thus more cost effective. It's a scale thing, and on that premise, the guy in the garage won't be able to produce many units, therefore limiting the customer base, which in itself would hardly make it the thing of the future.

Just out of curiosity, you said that you have built many bikes/trikes from the ground up (well done...very commendable... just wish i had that talent, then i would do more work on my bike lol) and obviously when complete, these projects were/are truely custom made and thereby you are a customiser. How many did you sell, and at what price, and what's your order list like? Is there a future in it for you? One where you can support yourself and grow?

My point, is that once something has been made, it can be called a custom piece. As soon as others are made, it can no longer be labelled as such, and you don't see as many One off unique bikes on the road as you do production bikes, so that would tell me that custom bikes are not as popular, and not the future.

What can i use to back up my point.....well this thread has a video of a custom made motorcycle, and judging by the comments left by those that have seen it, there are more negative comments than positive. These are the biking community, so i would say have a pretty good handle on "trends", and not many seem to have custom bikes, or are thinking of rushing out to go get themselves  a "black jaguar" bike.

Keep smiling  :smile




 



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smidget

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 2387

smidget says:

Cowboy11

Nice try with the tyre example but it does not count as a customising item, although with the number of companies producing tyres it does give the buying public a varied choice.

So let me change tyres for shoes, you go to a cobbler and have hand made shoes, these are custom made, although there may be other people with the same style of shoe, theirs are from a mass producer of shoes, yours still remain custom.

Be it home produced or mass produced once the initial item has been manufactured, it then becomes easier and quicker to produce replicas if this is the desired route. 
However if it is home made and mass producers see that the 'trend' is to follow the style of the home produced item then they are more likely to cash in on following the trend as they are in the habit of wanting to make money.

Take OCC for example, they started out as single item customisers, eventually the customer base was / is for their mass produced take on custom choppers, along with other American chopper builders. From this 'trend' the Victory motorcycle is available with various twists, thus a 'trend' becoming a mass produced motorcycle. Hence in my way of thinking the future of motorcycling, custom becoming production, following a trend. 

Lets just say the bikes and trikes were built for those I thought deserved them, my reward was not monetary.
Yes I could of made it pay but then the pleasure would of been lost. I am no longer able to continue due to my own ill health. (attached a picture of my own lowrider built 20 years ago, a box of bits to what you see in seven and a half weeks, what wasn't in the box I made).

As for the Jaguar bike, IT, I agree will remain a true one off custom, as will many others I'm sure you see on the streets in America if you are still there, However there are many that inspire the designers and manufacturers to follow what they see on the streets world wide.

You have a nice day now:smile

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cowboy11

Joined:

Apr 09

Posts: 196

cowboy11 says:

smidget

sorry to hear your not 100 percent at the moment, i'm in the same situation myself, and it sucks.

Ok...i like the way you went from tyres to shoes...nice link. But you said pertaining to tyres "it does not count as a customising item" However in a previous post you stated that "in fact change anything from that which the bike came off the production line with and you have customising taking place"
Hmm?

OCC...congratulations, fantastic example right there, and this pretty much shows my point exactly. Yes i totally agree they started off as a single custom bike building operation. But now they have to run a production shop because they can't stay ecconomically viable as a custom shop. They recognised that their future was more aimed at reproduction as opposed to custom built units.

Oh crap i missed the home produded/mass produced thingy...sorry about that. Yup i agree with what you are saying here about it being easier to produce replicas and so on. But here's my question...when you built your bikes and you stepped back and, quite rightly, admired what you had created, did you think, i give it my all, and there'll never be another one like this....or did you think, cool, it's gonna be much easier to make another one of them.
The whole customiser verses producer debate lol.

Found it interesting when you said "built for those i thought deserved them" now that really is limiting your customer base, and i would suggest had a bigger impact on you not building more bikes than your ill health.

Yup still in America (and funny enough having a nice day :lol:  ) There are some one off customs kicking around, but not many. Mostly H-D's, but more and more sports bikes are showing up. Maybe they are the future?

Anyway, happy riding, and i hope you get well soon.
Keep smiling :smile

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smidget

Joined:

Nov 07

Posts: 2387

smidget says:

cowboy11

Tyres, custom item !!!!! I think we both know your nit picking on this point, or are you serious?


OCC reason for using them as an example, start with custom item, move onto production, the point which I started with custom bike becomes the future.

When custom building any item I find it easier to make copies as the design, development has been done.
I worked with the person who's bike trike it was to become, their needs required some strange solutions, so each was a true custom. Never really wanted to do production building.

As with you the weather here has been exceptional, and is forcast to remain so for a few more days.

Well chap been nice talking this subject through with you, and I have found some of your comments thought provoking. 

You have many more nice days.

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cowboy11

Joined:

Apr 09

Posts: 196

cowboy11 says:

smidget

same to you fella. It's been interesting and thoughtful. I'm so glad it didn't result into name calling and such.
Enjoy the weather...enjoy your riding, but above all

KEEP SMILING. :smile

oh and judging by the way you debate, your mind is free, so why not continue with the bike building, it could be beneficial to what ever your illness is   i.e. it stops the illness seem so bad.


 To anyone else who's been reading this thread... i'm after a custom...........:lol:

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