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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Honda progress exposed Ducati weakness, says Valentino Rossi

Valentino Rossi reckons the performance improvements made by Honda in 2011 worsened the extent of the problems experienced by Ducati this season. Rossi has struggled to make any significant progress with Ducati’s GP11 machine and in a bid to improve his results, the Bologna factory rolled out a brand new bike called the GP11.1 for last weekend’s Assen round in Holland. The...

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  • Posted 4 years ago (29 June 2011 09:47)

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Daredevil4

Joined:

Jun 11

Posts: 4

Daredevil4 says:

Same engine with changed con rods

Noshow- I think it's the same engine too as it sounds completely different from the gp11. However the rules aren't clear on it and I guess we'll just have to trust the inspectors dorna sent to verify everything. After all they represent the sport motogp and if anyone can't trust them to do their job indiscriminately then they don't respect the sport motogp any less. If you don't believe into the sport then what's the point of following it

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Desmosedici46

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Nov 10

Posts: 15

Mmmmm, Mugello ;) Part 1

Quite a damn honest and inormative interview from Mr 46.
“Valentino Rossi reckons the performance improvements made by Honda in 2011 worsened the extent of the problems experienced by Ducati this season”.


I agree that the overall Honda package seems the best on the grid easily. Its only recently that the Yams have look dominant again. I think the Hondas still lead the way followed a little closer by the Yams now with Ducati a distant third. I’m talking strictly Team-Bike-Rider packages not single riders, single bikes etc but the whole packages.


“The bike was effectively the chassis and rear suspension of next year’s 1000cc GP12 Desmosedici with an engine destroked to 800cc to comply with existing regulations”.


This is a very generalisation as I’m sure there wil lbe much more different when the 1000cc Desmo makes it debut but ok, this is the handling part of the package so in effect a new bike with new settings and I dare say new problems for team red.


"The bigger problem this year is the Honda, which made a great step and a big improvement that didn’t happen last year. I think that the GP11 in the last season doesn’t develop in the right way and starting from 2007 the Ducati won less races year by year”.


Very true. It was painfully obvious the Ducati hadn’t developed that much and why should it when the roder on it was going out and ringing its balls out to get results. It doesn’t give the factory the insentive to improve the package anymore does it?
 

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Desmosedici46

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Nov 10

Posts: 15

Mmmm, Mugello Part 2....

"This bike is very difficult to ride and Stoner rode this bike in a very good way, also because he was five years with the same bike. For all the riders that come from a more normal bike, it is quite difficult and I think mainly that bike has arrived at the end of its development. With this one (GP11.1) we have more space to improve the bike."


Rossi’s right here, Stoner basically rode it a certain way that got the best from it. Respectful as Rossi is I’ll reserve judgement on Stoner in general (for now) but will say he was the best man for the newly developed ‘super fast’ 2007 Desmo because he had not had enough experience on the Motogp bikes or one manufacturers bike in particular to have formed ‘bad habits’ so therefore instantly ‘bonded’ with the Desmo and liked it. Then he had a further 3 years (not five years altogether like stated) to frutehr progress. That progress didn’t happen. The development didn’t happen and the bike ended up a pig for 2011. That’s all fair, factual fun.


“Rossi is hoping he will be closer to the front this weekend when he races on home soil for the first time on a Ducati at Mugello”.

And so is the entire world. Its time to show a little of that ‘9 times Championship flair’ he is (was) capable of on the Japanese bikes. As I’ve stated before though he is at the wrong end of his career to stick his neck out and risk ‘win or bin’ style that could well land him in pot for another few months like last year. He’s changes his style a little and wants the Desmo to meet him halfway. Can’t blame him as he isn’t 20 and doesn’t need the wins to develop a reputation anymore. Leave that to the ‘young guns’.


"Looking to the Mugello race we can see it in a more optimistic way and we tested this bike two times in Mugello with the 1000 engine and we did some good lap times. We expect high temperatures and we hope to be more competitive because we need to improve the result."


And the entire team will see if the GP12 and the GP11.1 are even in the same league. It will determine if it’s the chassis or engine that’s causing the biggest problems. It will be a good tester although I’d like to see Rossi fighting at the front because once he’s been up there personally think the second half of his year would conitnue the same.


As long as he’s got something a little competitive for Misano is Septemeber when I’m there I’ll feel better. I can’t wait to experience the Italian fans with Dovi, Rossi and Marco on track. Awesome.


Thanks for tuning in to ‘Ducati FM’ – we’ll see what happens on Sunday ;)
 

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noshow

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Oct 10

Posts: 552

noshow says:

So what your saying is because i have brought up a topic instead of insulting a rider (Moaner) i should respect a sport ? thanks for joining the forum mate.

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wak1309

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Jun 10

Posts: 120

wak1309 says:

Noshow

I'll try and help you out (although I might be wrong and I'm sure someone with more time and knowledge will correct me!)

As I understand things:-

They are allowed to test bikes that are not running in this year's championship (hence the tests on the 2012 desmo 1000cc)

They are allowed 6 engines only of 800cc for this year's championship. Once sealed, they cannot be tampered with, so to try alternative ways of getting more out of what they have, Ducati have essentially done a 'Heath Robinson' and cut & shut a 2012 chassis and sacrificed  one of their 2011 allocated 800cc engines for a destroked (as said) 1000cc to comply, which means they only have 5 actual 800cc engines and 1 'bodge job'??

 

Obviously that's the limit of my technical nouse so I would appreciate if one or two of the Techie anoraks could elaborate on the lamen's terms......

 

Be good to see Italians dominate the podium 1- Rossi, 2- Simmo, 3- Dovi would be my favoured result but I'm sure the Spaniards and a certain American and Aussie might have something to say, and very hopefully a Brit too??!!

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Smackbum

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Jun 11

Posts: 233

Smackbum says:

Talk about rubbing Dorna's nose in it!

 

Rossi :-  " ...we tested this bike two times in Mugello with the 1000 engine ..."

But I'm all for Ducati being more competitive in 2011 and 2012, regardless of how they are bending the rules to get there.  They did try hard to keep on the straight and narrow at the start of the season but it just wasn't working as well as they expected.  And as long as there is consistency across the teams about testing 2012 parts that suddenly appear on the 2011 bikes, then that's fine.

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Hedgehog5

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Aug 02

Posts: 2319

Hedgehog5 says:

DD46 - "I agree that the overall Honda package seems the best on the grid easily. Its only recently that the Yams have look dominant again. I think the Hondas still lead the way followed a little closer by the Yams now with Ducati a distant third."

Stoner on the Honda is the best package... the Ducati is way off but as you can see the Honda hasn't actually improved by any great amount over the improvement of the Yamaha... or do you disagree?... I'm open to suggestions, please present an argument :)

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Moaner

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Jun 11

Posts: 942

Moaner says:

Smackbum indeed!!

It would seem you have ignored a vital part of the Rossi quote when suggesting they are breaking the rules and "rubbing Dornas nose in it"

"we tested this bike two times in Mugello with the 1000 engine"

Therefore testing the 2012 frame with the 1000cc engine bolted to it is not breaking the rules.

 

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RawDawg

Joined:

Jan 09

Posts: 960

RawDawg says:

back up a sec Desomocedici46

You say "Stoner" had 3 further years to progress and develop the Ducati which didn't happen and  the bike was a pig for 2011 which you say is "all fair, factual fun"? I say that's bullshit coming from a Rossi fanboy. First off, you should say "Ducati" had 3 years to further develop the bike and they didn't - not Stoner. Stoner doesn't design parts. Stoner doesn't spend any money on R&D. Stoner doesn't fabricate or make anything. Name me ONE update that Stoner has gotten in the last 2 years. In 2011 he got the 2010 forks and in 2009 they went back forth between the carbon and aluminium swing arm. What else happen? Nothing. They didn't exactly shut down their WSBK team for Stoner did they? Did they release 2 updated carbon chassis for Stoner before the half way mark in any season like this year? Did they give him a brand new chassis before the half way mark like they have for Val? No they didn't. From Stoner:

"There were a lot of different things we asked for which they just couldn't do, things I asked for, my technicians, everybody," Stoner said in the press conference, "But we knew they were trying as hard as they could but without the resources, this is all they could come up with".... " From 2007 to 2008 they changed more or less nothing. 2009 and 2010, other than the chassis? That's it. We didn't change anything also in the past years. We changed to the big bang engine, but that was it. We did small steps each year and that's all they had the time for, they had all the season to develop one thing, we changed that and that was it. They would spend all the next season developing the next thing."

And as for 2011, if you are going to blame Stoner than you have to put more blame on Ducati, Val, Filippo, and JB - they've had plenty of time with the bike. They made changes to it after the end of season test at Valencia last year along with 2 updates to the chassis this year with Hayden running the lastest this past weekend.

That's your "all fair, factual fun" right there.

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Daredevil4

Joined:

Jun 11

Posts: 4

Daredevil4 says:

Calm down

Noshow- I did not insult any rider! As a matter of fact I think stoner is a brilliant rider but is quite a moaner too. As a Rossi fan I'm not afraid to say he played the shoulder excuse a tad too much instead of saying the bike is crap from the start.( not a wise thing to say when you are just starting a new job to your employer). However any insinuation that dorna is favouring Rossi is an insult to motogp itself. It's like saying FIFA favours Spain to help them win the world cup. It is clearly putting the sports into disrepute without any proof. I'm not here to insult anyone but voice my opinions . However how patronizing of you to say "thanks for joining the forum". Not kool at all

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