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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Honda progress exposed Ducati weakness, says Valentino Rossi

Valentino Rossi reckons the performance improvements made by Honda in 2011 worsened the extent of the problems experienced by Ducati this season. Rossi has struggled to make any significant progress with Ducati’s GP11 machine and in a bid to improve his results, the Bologna factory rolled out a brand new bike called the GP11.1 for last weekend’s Assen round in Holland. The...

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  • Posted 4 years ago (29 June 2011 09:47)

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stompmyduke

Joined:

Mar 08

Posts: 264

stompmyduke says:

Disagree

We can't really say that the Big H has not improved this year. It is more consistent as regard results than it has ever been. Forget Stoner and Pedro, look at Dovi, once the epitomy of inconsistency, but now lots of podiums to his CV. Honda did not put shed-loads of dosh into this bike so potential winners could look ridiculous - they did it to WIN (and win they probably will - at Mugello). Rossi and Duke will be out-classed at Mugello, but expect to see the Doc on the podium. Can't wait to see the first PROPER dust up between Rossi, Sic and Dovi (who now thinks 3rd place is his by right).

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3328

Bultoboy says:

Stompmyduke

"Dovi (who now thinks 3rd place is his by right)."

When did he tell you that then..... Come on, that's a bit of a statement to make with no foundation whatsoever

How much the Hondas have improved is pretty well imeasurable, if they have improved at all from last season.

Dovi has not had regular podiums. He was generally around 4th or 5th last year, couple of podiums maybe. This year he has had three podiums, one at Le Mans following the exit of Pedrosa, the drive through of Simoncelli and a slower than usual Lorenzo who hurt his hand in the warm-up crash. Another at Siverstone without Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Simoncelli and another at Assen again without Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Simoncelli. These podiums can't be taken as a true indication of his pace. Put those riders back in those races and 'ON PACE' he is generally behind them. And don't forget Rossi who is a faster rider than Dovi but he's not in the mix yet.

Pedrosa was getting regular 1st and 2nd places mid season last year until his crash, so the bike was already performing well last year in his hands. He was on the podium with one 1st this year in the first three races, same for Lorenzo. So not much has changed really, he and Dovi have achieved roughly the same finishes as last year which doesn't seem to indicate that the bike has made a leap forward.

It's a good bike obviously and Stoner has added to its potential to be a winner as they now have 2 riders who can regularly podium and win. Whether that indicates a leap forward in the bike's performance is debatable. Yamaha have had 2 wins also this year and podiums.

Without meaning it as a pop at Rossi, the Ducati's weakness is possibly more exposed this year as he won't/can't or whatever, ride it like Stoner did to get it higher up the results.

When all six potential winners are actually finishing races, then is the time to judge Dovi against his performances last year.
 

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hugelean

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Oct 07

Posts: 1302

hugelean says:

Hedgehog, i read your posts with interest but I'm baffled by your comments that the honda isn't way ahead. Dani is missing and theyams had a good weekend but that has been a one off. There have been 4 hondas in the top six nearly all year, I can't remember the last time a brand had such dominance. Yes Dani is injured and simo keeps falling off but these are not reflections of the bikes ability. I fully expect the Hondas to be back incontrol at mugello providing Danis fit and of course a certain Rossi isn't on fire. I think Rossi is bang on in his assesment. It took Casey till race 13 to look like winning a race last year his second year on the cf bike and 4th on a ducati, I think Rossi can be cut a bit of slack. There was hardly any competiton last year.. look how easy JLo won.

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RawDawg

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Jan 09

Posts: 960

RawDawg says:

er, excuse me

If anyone would mind checking actually FACTS and RESULTS you would see the Dovi actually had MORE podiums at this point (after 7 races) last year (4) than he does this year (3). And 2 of the 4 came last year before Rossi was out. Bultoboy, Dovi had 7 podiums last year which is bit more the a couple and definitely not a maybe. And in case your forgot, Dovi was already ahead of both Jorge and Simo when they crashed at Silverstone this year.

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whemy

Joined:

Oct 10

Posts: 112

whemy says:

i give up

do we have to dig up albert einstein to figure this out for god sake honda had this bike last year ducati had this bike last year a few tweaks from both sides of the garages for this year nothing major the ducati was winning at the end of last season so was the honda stoner jumps on the honda wins 4 races this year dovi has won 1 race in 3 years pretty shit really? or maybe its just me looking at the facts wrong.

rossi is sayin stoner made the ducati look good which has been printed in MCN by jerry is it so f**king hard for people to understand stoner can ride both bikes of course the honda is easier to ride for casey that is why marco is on his arse dovi a distant second and if dani was riding i hear!! so what if dani was riding how many more years do you give the guy at honda how many more chances to win his times up..

basically rossi is struggling and blames honda for making them look bad? my god man get a grip your supposed to be developing the thing and still 30 secs of the pace over the line..your pointing the blame everywhere but yourself.

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caniborrowcaseyswife

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 50

whemy

very well put and i dont think they will miss jb, he doesnt seem to have done much while at ducati.

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tamounga

Joined:

Jun 10

Posts: 49

tamounga says:

Honda progress exposed Ducati weakness, says Valentino Rossi - NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stoner's departure exposed Ducati weakness, says moi

Rossi's arrival confirmed Ducati weakness, says me

After about 16 hours on the newly resurfaced Mugello a proper podium finish is the least we should expect, 1000cc or 800cc. Mechanical setup should be close to optimum level. They only have to work on engine mapping or any softwares related...

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lovell2576

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 40

lovell2576 says:

Patience

The Ducati will come good. Its just going to take a bit of time. And as the Ducati comes good we can all watch as Stoner leads Honda down the wrong path and turns the Honda into another also ran as he did with the Ducati.

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3328

Bultoboy says:

RawDawg

OK, so my rough guestimate was a bit out and Dovi had a few more than a couple of podiums but 7 and no wins is not much to shout about on a bike Pedrosa was winning on before the sticking throttle stopped his run at Motegi. He was then missing for a few races and Dovi still didn't win.

However, you stating that he had more podium places by this time last year than this, just reinforces that he isn't performing any better this year - which is the point that I was making and disputing what Stompmyduke was saying. And yes I know that Lorenzo and Simo were behind him when they crashed out, who knows whether they would have passed him or not, I just meant he didn't 'beat' them, but I accept they crashed out and he didn't.

Bottom line is, using Dovi as an example of how the Honda is a better bike this year than last is a somewhat flawed argument.

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3328

Bultoboy says:

Hugelean

"it took Stoner until race 13 to look like winning a race"

Where do you get that from, it's not what Rossi said.

In his second year on the CF bike, he was way ahead in the first race but didn't win due to crashing, not because he was riding around down the order way off the pace needed to win. I think there followed a couple of races with not so good results but within a few races the bike was on the podium and close to a win in some. Certainly not until race 13.

In his first year on the CF bike he won first time out and had some podiums in the first few races and maybe one more win until the tyre gamble at Donington put them both last in the race.

He rode his balls off on that bike and achieved results no-one else could. He made it look better than it was and that is becoming ever more evident now.

The only thing exposing Ducati's weakness is the man who made it look better than it was is no longer on it. It has nothing to do with Honda improving. Honda are filling the top places as they have 3 bloody fast riders and one nearly as fast on 4 factory bikes. Yamaha have 2 factory bikes and have two bloody fast riders, both with a win each so far. Aoyama proved it is not just down to the bike as he hardly set the world alight when he rode Pedrosa's. Stoner switched from Ducati and went straight to the top of the timesheets. Aoyama went from another Honda so a better result was not an unreasonable expectation on Pedrosa'a bike.

Rossi is playing politics again, deflecting attention from the truth. He cannot get results on this bike and it must be hurting.

I've no doubt it will be sorted at some stage, but when and at what cost. Ducati road bikes may cost a bit more in future....
 

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