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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Honda progress exposed Ducati weakness, says Valentino Rossi

Valentino Rossi reckons the performance improvements made by Honda in 2011 worsened the extent of the problems experienced by Ducati this season. Rossi has struggled to make any significant progress with Ducati’s GP11 machine and in a bid to improve his results, the Bologna factory rolled out a brand new bike called the GP11.1 for last weekend’s Assen round in Holland. The...

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  • Posted 4 years ago (29 June 2011 09:47)

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hugelean

Joined:

Oct 07

Posts: 1306

hugelean says:

And he got lucky(not seriously injured) and two 4ths for his trouble. After 4 years on it he was get less competitive every season.. What alien in their right mind would see that(4th) as a target to strive for... That's as bad as it gets if your alien.. Now if Casey was fighting for the championship every season and just lost, I'd agree 100% Rossi needs to emulate Casey. But right now Rossi is not going well at all, and yet he's still going as well as Casey did the last two seasons(in wc terms, what else is there??). If your being picky he has another half dozen races to go before he needs to look like winning a race to match Casey last year. No doubt Casey rode it hard, but the harder he rode it the lower he finished in the championship who would be daft enough to try to emulate that.

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lovell2576

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 40

lovell2576 says:

Aquarius

Its ok fella, you dont need to give me a lesson in MotoGP!! I was just stating my belief thats all. I am entitled to that right?

Considering Chipmunk jumped on the Ducati in 07 (A new class for everybody) and smashed everybody to pieces and then finished progressively worse in the championship every year after that does not show me he has the ability to move the bike in the right direction to keep up with the development of others. Now Honda have wheeled out a weapon and chipmunk is instantly at home on it. Does that make him a good rider? Yes it does but does it make him a good development rider? we dont know yet, as I said, I could not give two fucks about what he is doing now on the bike, what I want to see is how he does over a period of time. Is he going to have the same career at Honda that he did at Ducati? If he does then we will know he cant lead development of a bike and is just a good solid rider. like I said before. The rider is the guy that gives feedback and direction to the development guys so they can go off and build him what he wants. This direction needs to be clear and concise. Any idiot that believes the development team build a bike and give it to a rider on what he thinks he should have clearly has no idea what they are talking about, or have never worked on any kind of development project. 

Incidently, everything on here is all speculation, whats to say that Rossi and JB were holding secret meetings with Ducati and already putting there stamp on the GP12 way before joe public even got wind of the move. We could go on and on forever!! End of the season will tell us.

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Smackbum

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Jun 11

Posts: 235

Smackbum says:

4th is nothing special

But in 2010 Stoner either finished in the top 5 (3x1st, 2x2nd, 4x3rd, 1x4th, 3x5th) or failed to finish.  Rossi saw more chequered flags than Stoner - even with his broken leg - and pipped him for 3rd in the championship by 8 points.  DNFs cost - particularly when you are leading the race, and the accident at Qatar was a bad omen for the season.  By the time Stoner came to grips with the problem (pun intended) the championship was long gone and he slipped into the "win it or bin it" mode.  This did gain 3 wins late in the season for Ducati, but it seemed to fool JB and VR into thinking they just had to wave their magic wand and the bike would be cured of its woes.

Instead they found that Casey had been over riding the bike to buggery and Valentino couldn't come to grips with it.  His confidence in the bike quickly plummeted and Ducati were looking down the barrel of no race wins this season, which was unthinkable.  So they fast tracked the 2012 bike, tested it to the legal limit, and then destroked and re-named it the 2011.1 so that Rossi could use it this year.  Pretty clever on one hand, pretty devious on another.  So if Valentino can't get a good result at Mugello (regardless of JBs absence) then it looks like Ducati can either write some blank cheques for more "2011.x" development, or write off this season as a rebuilding phase.

I reckon that they should retain Rossi as a test-rider and poach Stoner back from Honda to ride the thing once it is sorted.  That should satisfy the Rossi/Stoner lovers/haters in one fell swoop!

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3391

Bultoboy says:

Who cares

If Stoner is a good development rider or not FFS

Honda have hired him because he's fast and can win races - presumably. 4 out of 7 wins and I'd guess they are happy with the return so far

Honda hire test riders and designers and engineers to do the development for them

The racers ride the bike. If they want changes they ask for them

They ask for changes to suit themselves, no-one else. Can't really see Pedrosa saying the bike is fine for me but Stoner doesn't like this bit, can you change it for him. I know it won't suit me but hey-ho, we need a bike we can all ride.

Ultimately, I'd guess that the team manager makes a final decision as to whether any change requests submitted by the riders are implemented or not. After consultation with engineers, designers, rider and the accountant. It's not a rider's fault if the team won't change things.

No-one on here has the faintest idea of the conversations and discussions that take place between riders and team as regards changing the bikes.

If Honda's design team, engineers and test riders can continue to provide bikes that their riders can win on do you think they will give a toss about their riders' 'development skills'

We do know Stoner advised Ducati of the same problems as Rossi has. We know Ducati have canned their WSB team in order to give Rossi anything he wants whereas there was nowhere near that type of funding to do the same with Stoner. That's from Stoner himself so call him a liar if you like.

Rossi's feedback has been pretty inconsistent since he got on the bike. First the back end was superb, loads of grip with excellent traction control. Just the front to sort out. Next it was begining to feel like 'his bike' and he was very happy. Next the back end was no good and they had to cure the Ducati's characteristic rear end sliding and hopping (what happened to it being superb with loads of grip) Then the front is still no good.

If this had come from any other rider, particularly Stoner, they'd be called clueless and lacking any direction at all. Being realistic about it however, it is fair to assume that changes they are making along the way affect other aspects of the bike's behaviour, hence the differing feedback as test sessions progressed.

7 months later and they still have the same problem, front end that inspires no confidence. Again, if that was Stoner or anyone else they'd be publicily ridiculed on here for their lack of ability to provide feedback.

So does this mean Rossi can't develop a bike then.

I know what the answer would be if it was someone else.

Give it a rest with the Stoner/Rossi crap.
 

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whiller

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 1

whiller says:

Ducati

The Ducati has a problem & it always has, a primitive chassis! In the good old 990 days this chassis issue was made up for by an awesome engine. Stoner did ride the wheels off it I agree but its success was due to this engine. It was by far the best out there in the power stakes but handling. not even close. The 800 Gp bike is a different animal altogether it is all about carrying speed through the corners, the Ducati is not good at this as we have all seen, to make things worse their engine due to the new rules is only on a par with the other manufacturers. Overall package poor!
The Rossi/Burgess developed Yamaha is currently the best overall package out there but do the current pilots and crew have the knowledge to keep up with development? Honda are quite clearly back on form too! they had some dark days with Hayden heading their effort. Honda should have mentioned to Hayden that they were developing road racers not dirt bikes.
 

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