Skip to content

Discuss This Valentino Rossi and Ducati hint at aluminium chassis switch MotoGP

You are in... Forums > Discuss This > MotoGP > Valentino Rossi and Ducati hint at aluminium chassis switch

This is a discussion topic

This discussion topic is linked to an article on this site. You can navigate to the article by clicking on the article name in the first post.

Go to most recent reply

Anonymous

Joined:

Posts:

Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi and Ducati hint at aluminium chassis switch

Valentino Rossi and Ducati technical boss Filippo Preziosi have both dropped strong hints that the Bologna factory is seriously contemplating a drastic change in philosophy by switching to a conventional aluminium frame in the future. Ever since Rossi first rode the 2011 Desmosedici in Valencia last November, he has complained of a lack of front-end feeling and understeer. As his complaints about...

Reply to this Topic  
  • Posted 4 years ago (18 August 2011 12:14)

Post a message in MotoGP

Fields marked with an asterisk * are required

   

Please note. You cannot submit more than 4000 characters as a message.

Upload image(s) from your computer (up to 3 images)

  1.  
  2.  
  3.  

Terms of use

Use of our community areas and forums is subject to important terms of use. By joining our community and using the features you agree to be bound by these terms. See terms of use below. 

Cancel
motoking

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 968

motoking says:

READ IT!!!

i read comment from furusawa, "i already had 2 bike when rossi arrived, and let him choose which one is the best (including long fork of front part, to absorb chatter). and rossi choose the right one. i though it also, but i still have doubt about 50%-50%. and rossi made me convinced"

WELL DUDE ROSSI'S FANS!!! NOW YOU KNOW IT'S NOT ROSSI OR BURGES THAT DEVELOPTED THE BIKE!!!! IT'S FURUSAWA!!!! rossi only gave feedback, burgess set it up. all the engine etc it by furusawa. he is a genius. again....

"rossi ever call me (when in ducati) to gave opinion about his problem and i gave my opinion cause i still need him to sign his picture (joke)....."

well, he only silence all this time just like burgess! so it's the truth about YOUR GOAT (god of ass talk) RIDER!!!!

now stoner in best bike just like rossi before. if he win this year, all rossi record is nothing if compare from 2006. i'm sure someone here can find it in english interview since my languange isn't english.

MOANER POSTED :

Lets have a look what else Furasawa has said about Rossi..

When asked about getting not only Rossi but also his team in 2004, Furusawa explained:

“I hope Jeremy doesn’t misunderstand me, but if I had to choose between the two of them based on the results, I’d say Valentino is more important."

Another little jem here...

Furusawa went on the clarify the truth behind the paddock gossip that wanted Rossi as the person behind the decision of not wanting Casey Stoner in their team back in 2007.

“Valentino never told me that he didn’t like Stoner when we were negotiating with the Australian. He did explain his relationship with Edwards. He never asked me not to hire Stoner, those decisions are left to Yamaha. It was Stoner’s conditions that were unacceptable.”

Thought i would throw that last one in there as i have seen it banded about by the usual haters that Rossi "blocked Stoner" and always thought it was funny

BULTOBOY POST :

But wasn't Furusawa head of engineering, not Yamaha racing team, so any hiring/firing of riders would not be his decision - Re: Rossi not asking him not to sign Stoner? Although I'm not disputing what he says about Stoner as I have no idea obviously.

He actually prepared 4 bikes for Rossi to evaluate, not an unusual approach for an engineer who has a few design concepts and wants them evaluated. One of the bikes had his new big bang cross plane crank engine fitted, which he thought was the best option - it even dispensed with Yamaha's much lauded and patented 5 valve head design.

Yamaha were sceptical, Furusawa thought it was the way to go and a Yamaha test rider had already confirmed that the smooth engine enabled the bike to be ridden quickly even though it wasn't that powerful and felt slow. This was before Rossi. Rossi then tried it and said the same, proving Furusawa's concept was right.

Still not sure why Rossi seems to take the credit for this. I'd agree though that out of the two Rossi was more important. Furusawa had designed a good basis and they needed a top rider on it, there weren't many then and Rossi was the best. Better to have him on it and no Burgess than a slower rider with Burgess in the garage, as Furusawa seemed well capable of designing and sorting a bike himself.

SO CONCLUSION : ROSSI ISN'T THAT GREAT!!!!! LOL

Reply to this Topic
Ocdcbr

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 257

Ocdcbr says:

Blah blah blah. All fair enough. Surely the point here is that all the riders in this class are great. The top 6 or so amazing. Only stoner has been able to get the 800 duke to work and then with front end crashes he was unable to explain. Something on the bike/ chassis / front end has to change/ be sorted. The Rossi/ burges point of view is hopefully a new slant on things that hopefully will improve things given time. Re this goat thing. Who can say? Maybe the greatest rider of the last 10 yrs or so?

Reply to this Topic
leemuz

Joined:

Jul 08

Posts: 1091

leemuz says:

BACK TO WINNING WAYS

I reckon if they swop the frame you will see rossi even further up field than he is now.

With more flex the bike wont feel like its going to tuck as much.

I still maintain rossi is no 1 title contender for next year..

Reply to this Topic
Vortex52

Joined:

Oct 09

Posts: 39

Vortex52 says:

DUCATI Chassi

Well, vale is a multi World Champion and his ipinion must be taken into consideration even by the most traditional motorcycle manufacturer like DUCATI.

It's all like admiting a mistake, there is nothing wrong with it, and DUCATI adimiting that an aluminium chassi will improve the bike why not doing so? Even the road chassi could be the same in the future, tradition must be sacrificed by the sake of development, otherwise we could all still driving crap old Mini's......

Reply to this Topic
v2kiwi

Joined:

Mar 04

Posts: 202

v2kiwi says:

Ducati

has a big issue on there hands here. the new road bike is based on the current GP format chassis although alloy not carbon. If ducati build a twin spar alloy frame like the rest , how can they flog a new road bike to the public based on a format that don,t work. Thats the big problem. plumbers trellis IS ducati.

Reply to this Topic
mickofield

Joined:

Sep 09

Posts: 107

mickofield says:

Resources, resources

The problem, like most things in life is money! Burgess' statement "Ideally in a company with enormous resources you could run two parallel projects or in some companies three or four depending on what manpower you’ve got. That determines how much you can do and how much different you can do." Sums it up. Ducati race for engineering development, the love of the sport and marketing. Tough to have a new street bike based on your race bike ready to launch, then change the race bike! Ducati have always gone their own way, that's why they are desmo, have different style of frames and single sided swing arms. I think if they market their new bike carefully, the fact it is not quite like the race bike will not matter. If it works and looks cool, it will sell

Reply to this Topic
Easyfred

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 40

Easyfred says:

Short Term Solution

Switching to an aluminium twin spar chassis is a huge mistake for Ducati and also for motoGP

Ducati use a CF frame for one reason only
The 90 degree configuration of their Desmo engine means it has a large and awkward form factor limiting both space and adjustment window for moving the engine within a traditional twin spar frame. The solution is to use the engine as a stressed member in the chassis – allowing room for the air-box and reducing weight in the process. The problem with this is that the engine is exceptionally stiff and so the central section of the chassis has little flexibility. Flexibility mid corner is essential as this acts as suspension at full lean where the existing suspension is ineffective due to its vertical installation and direction of travel on the bike. The solution to this is to use carbon fibre for the chassis – and this solution is GENIUS
Carbon fibre is hugely flexible due to its nature as a composite material and can be engineered based on layer thickness and fibre alignment to flex as much as needed – just look at CF fishing rods

The existing problem is not flexibility – it is “feel”
Specifically, the “feel” that Rossi, Hayden and others are saying is missing is the feeling from the front tyre deflection and coefficient of friction under full lean mid corner. This “feel” is interpreted through tiny vibrations and resistance in the bars, pegs and the seat of the rider’s leathers. The problem here is that CF behaves completely differently to aluminium in the way that it transfers these tiny vibrations through the material. Because of the hysteresis characteristics of CF certain resonant frequencies of vibration will be absorbed and dulled when passed through the material. This would equate to a lack of “feel” for the rider. Add to this the engine being part of the chassis and therefore absorbing vibration through its mass, whilst adding its own vibrations to the mix and you have a completely different “feeling” bike. Stoner was able to amplify the level of “feel” available by loading the front into a corner and thus putting huge heat and energy in to the front tyre to increase the source of the “feel”. This worked up to a point but was risky for the rider

The solution to this is NOT to switch to aluminium. A switch to aluminium will no doubt provide more “feel” for the rider as the vibrations and resistance would be more familiar BUT it will not overcome the reason for the CF in the first place. The engine would still need to be a stressed member in the frame. A switch to aluminium would mean a step backwards for Ducati, for motoGP as a prototype series and ultimately for the punters who benefit from the development of technology through motorsport

Ducati would be left with a heavier, stiffer bike and have to throw away all their data. The rider will still not have the level of “feel” you would get from a standard twin spar frame. This would not be competitive

Ducati need to continue to develop this design to find the “feel” through a process of trial and elimination OR the single tyre rule needs to be dropped so that a tyre construction can be used that will provide greater rider feedback without the need to chuck the thing into corners like a loony – simples!
 

Reply to this Topic
motoking

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 968

motoking says:

EASYFRED

MY GOODNESS. YOU'RE A BIT SMART EH??? SHOULD ALL ROSSI'S FANS HERE READ IT!!! CAUSE IT MEANS NEXT YEAR ROSSI WOULD ANNOUNCE RETIRE!!!! LOL.

Reply to this Topic
Easyfred

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 40

Easyfred says:

motoking

I am become Neil Spalding

Reply to this Topic
gasguzzler

Joined:

Sep 09

Posts: 39

gasguzzler says:

Easyfred

All good stuff.. but the problem with a stressed mem frame, in this sence is, the resonating frequencies are  inconcistant and veriable to engine load ,{revs vibration} which alter the charecteristics of flex and feel ..The same lean angle,same amount of tyre deflection same load on the tyre can manifest itself differently from one corner to another because, as you point out , engine frequency not only absorbs mass{ stress,torsion} it translates it ,or, distorts it as a veriable of its own internal inertia .. the only way to limit this is to increase the strength ,resistance, of the active medium ,in this case the frame .which is prety much what the factory has done.. as you can see its a dead end , stiffen up frame ,bad idea , soften frame , bad ....yes carbon fibre is an excellent variable composite material... its the stressed member concept thats flawed ... A motorcycle frame needs to contain {susspend} and `act `and facilitate adjustment , independently of the motor and not be influenced by it {so fundimentaly) .. other wise the veriables become too broad and varied for engineers and riders to deal with ...  having said all that , i do hope you are right and a competetive ballance can be found with the current frame because itl be far quicker ,easier and cheaper for ducati and rossi ....  but this is how i see it ...
 

Reply to this Topic

Page

Compare Insurance

Save money by comparing quotes. It's quick and easy

Motorcycles for sale

 

It's only £13.99 to advertise your motorcycle on MCN

Sell your Motorcycle

Motorcycle pricing tool

New! Find used bike prices