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Anonymous

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Steve Farrell  says:

Rider killed braking for a speed camera

A motorcyclist was killed after braking too hard for a speed camera, a coroner said. Timothy Rowsell, 64, was doing at least 78mph on a Suzuki GSX-R1000 as he approached the speed camera van on a 50mph road. The camera operator, the only eyewitness to the crash, said she saw smoke coming from the bike’s tyres before Rowsell, a married father-of-two, fell...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (26 August 2011 14:18)

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COZ69

Joined:

Nov 10

Posts: 296

COZ69 says:

@snapple

Finaly someone with a brain, some people just cant see past the most simple of facts!

the most obvious one which is:-no van no death.

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coxyjm

Joined:

May 10

Posts: 114

coxyjm says:

Now Gents

This is an open forum for both the educated and uneducated, the one common thing we all share is our passion for biking, i am all for criticism and I am also partial to odd bit of banter, but please please please remember we are discussing a delicate and higly emotional topic here, so can we keep the personal digs to a minimum and bear in mind that a comrade has tragically lost his life regardless of the surrounding detail. we can all discuss the factors surrounding this and similar cases in other forums and ways. 

Nuff said.

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hairyMuppet

Joined:

Dec 03

Posts: 317

hairyMuppet says:

@COZ69

"no van no death."

No speeding, no death.

No excessive braking, no death.

@happylemon666 - why some of the limits are set the way they are is a good question.  Often there is little apparent logic and the councils do not seem to make it easy to get a hold of the stats (such as they are).  Cameras are a popular tool and I am sure we can all think of at least one pleace that desperately needs a camera, but I am not so sure they are the correct tool in all cases.  From what I recall, the working of the stats is often wrong (not allowing for regression to the mean, etc).

Perhaps it's time of presure councils/police to release road stats in an open format that the public can make use of (and if this is already being done, they are not making them easy to find!)

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wesley01

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 192

wesley01 says:

Make a plan

It is proven that any major break in concentration can have a massive impact on a bike rider ie entering or exiting a corner correctly, no camera van should be positioned near a corner as this would break anyones concentration. Resent figures prove that they have not saved lives but caused more accidents in certain areas. The police are misguiding their use of public funds etc and should take into consideration the over picture not just the mph! Why are the cops not out there checking bald tyres on all types of vehicles and poor driving overall? Speed is a factor inside 30mph zones and I do not think speeding in a 30 zone is the same as on the highway to a degree. Built up areas are an issue but with modern technology some bikes can brake and accelerate well within safe measures but will be above 70mph, police should stop creaming over speeder bikes and start using their own discretion. Why are there hardly any biker safety measures like that crash barrier and self collapsing poles,Like they have in other european countries? Britain needs to stop being so anti bikers. Rip to the gent and condolences to his family.

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COZ69

Joined:

Nov 10

Posts: 296

COZ69 says:

@HAIRYMUPPET

"No speeding, no death.

No excessive braking, no death."

So let me get this right, if the van wasent there he sill would have grabed a handfull of the front brake?

WHAT DRUGS HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING TODAY?!?

The only thing your right about is your name MUPPET!

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hairyMuppet

Joined:

Dec 03

Posts: 317

hairyMuppet says:

@COZ69

If no hazard was there, would he have lost control?  I don't know, possibly not.

If any other hazard had been there, would he have lost control?  I don't know, it is possible.

Is a driver's loss of control the fault of the hazard or the fault of the driver?  Barring exceptional circumstances, it's the fault of the driver.

This rider still had two choices they did not take 1) Simply carry on and accept the fine, 2) Come off the trottle and hope.  There was, of course, a third choice; not to speed in the first place.

I was riding with someone who went off the road because they were surprised by an AA van cresting a bridge (correct side of the road, not speeding, good visibility).  They were very lucky not to go head-first into the armco (or the barbed-wire fence beyond).  Was the crash fault of the AA van driver?  No.  It was the fault of the biker, the bridge and the junction beyond to the motorway were clearly visible; they should have been planning ahead.  Luckily in this case, the only major damage was to pride (and the bike).

@wesley01 - You make some valid points and there is some controversy over how road safety figures get massaged, err, reported (I've already mentiond allowig for regression to the mean).  As for safety measures, have you tried asking you local council/roads authority why they don't fit them?

This is a quote from another source "When the bike fell, Mr Rowsell hit one of the upright supports of the crash barrier."  He suffered a severed arm and a fractured skull.  Maybe a bike-safe barrier would have saved his life?

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rsvmillie1000

Joined:

May 08

Posts: 5

Safety first...

Ignoring the concept of catching speeders in the act for a moment - but one possibility for reducing the risks on a stretch of road, that has been persived as dangerous, could be to use a Camera Van in conjunction with tempoary signage. This would advice road users of the risks ahead (including the van) and the presence of the van would add an incentive to stick to the limit. Common sense would suggest that in this case the risks, including the risk of reactive breaking, would be ruduced. It is no different to the principles used during running and cycling events on public roads. However, a touch of synicism would suggest that reducing the risk is not their only concern - there are budgets to consider after all....

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bazablue

Joined:

Mar 10

Posts: 653

bazablue says:

abuse

This poor chap has created a lot of opinions on here,why the abuse I do not know,totally uncalled for.|I| ride every day and have done so for nearly 50yrs(,touch wood) I live by the..EARLY VIEW....BE PREPARED TO GIVE UP POSITION AND SPEED FOR SAFETY...CAN YOU STOP SAFELEY IN THE DISTANCE YOU CAN SEE TO BE CLEAR! and Im advanced trained at high speed(read into that what you will)............now GET THIS...Ive done it on many occasions...you are riding along at a lick and all of a sudden you realise oops Im speeding!or not concentrating enough!daydreaming!!! and close the throttle quickly........or even BRAKE!.and its usually on an open safe road where your level of concentration is not so high.and no hazard in sight and the camera van is not a recognised hazard  until its too late!.now we will never know what this chap was thinking only he knows ,no doubt that van could have beeen a highway maintenance van and caused the same reaction,would the litter collector etc be at fault?I think not......however I do subscribe to the complaints about the sitings of these vans....but then unfortunateley these things are not decided by bikers even police bikers!!!I think that the police bikers should always  be consulted on these policies...our sympathy for the family,weve seen a lot of bikers fall in the last few months,it would be nice to know the circs of them all and what part the (usually) car played and excuse given.....the govt of the day gave all councils the power to make their own road traffic regulation orders ...big mistake and thats why counties differ and stretches of motorway keep coming up with their own crap ideas when it should all be national...ie a dual carriageway is 60mph...which would still put this chap over,the limit.....the limits are maximums not minimums and sometimes even they are excessive in the circumstances....God bless him.!  

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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joeslow

Joined:

Mar 07

Posts: 1464

joeslow says:

Cold Comfort...

"It has been concluded that the siting of the speed camera was entirely appropriate and in line with Force procedure".

 

In other words, they couldn't care less about the rider or the loss his family have to bear.

All that matters to them is justifying their deployment of a system that endangers road users, time and time again.

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daveb

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 59

daveb says:

Perhaps he shouldn't have been doing 50% (estimated) over the sped limit. Perhaps a better rider would've simply let off the the brakes when his bike began to skid. Perhaps if a car, doing 78mph, had hit a rider doing 50mph on that stretch of road we'd all have different views.

Then again, if my dad had tits he'd be my mum.

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