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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi to test deltabox aluminium frame

Valentino Rossi will test a conventional deltabox aluminium chassis on Ducati’s factory GP12 machine in Jerez later this week after the Italian’s woeful 2011 continued at the Motorland Aragon. The new frame is similar to the concept used by Ducati’s Japanese rivals and it is the latest in a long line of radical changes introduced to give Rossi a bike he...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (20 September 2011 11:54)

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leemuz

Joined:

Jul 08

Posts: 1091

leemuz says:

positives...hopefully

 

Valentino Rossi was back at work today, once again testing the Ducati Desmosedici 1000cc prototype, this time at Jerez. On Tuesday and Wednesday it was test rider Franco Battaini putting the bike through its paces, while the Doctor used his seventh of eight allowable 1000cc test days today when his turn came.

Rossi arrived at the track early in the morning, and his day lasted until the final technical meetings late in the evening. Unofficial sources claim that Valentino was concentrating on short runs of around five laps each, which could indicate that there were various solutions available for him to try. Some information has also leaked out regarding lap times, with rumors suggesting that the Italian started his day lapping around the 1’41” area, and continued to improving throughout the session to an eventual 1’39”. As a basis for comparison, Casey Stoner's pole time from the last Jerez race was a 1'38.757, but the Australian also tested the Honda 1000cc there in May. There were no official lap times released on that occasion either, but word of mouth put Casey's lap times similar to those recorded by Rossi today. If true, this is positive news for Ducati, as their previous versions of the GP12 were apparently slower than the Honda equivalent at Mugello.


As with the last test session, there was no official word on the type of chassis being used, but it was almost certainly something different to the aluminum unit mounted to the GP11.1 for the recent race at Aragon. That design was fairly similar to the previous carbon fiber airbox unit, with the main differences being the construction material employed and the appearance of two braces which extended back to the seat unit. Today Rossi could have been using something similar to a Deltabox frame, or a "mixed" solution with two aluminum spars joined at the rear by the semi-stressed engine, and the rear suspension still pivoting on the motor. This compromise would actually be somewhat similar in concept to the previous Ducati trellis frames, with aluminum spars substituting the tubes.


 

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davevr46

Joined:

Feb 11

Posts: 180

davevr46 says:

Theres just too many variables to jump to a conclusion.

 

were they using a white band tyre

were they testing 2012 tyres.

track temperature's?

 

when i see the times from the test in  valencia , this will be the true order.

 

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chrisg011

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 846

chrisg011 says:

Positives and Negatives

Sure the real story isnt available, its in the Duke garage and we wont get that for a while, but motocorse.com gives some good insights - well worth a look.

They do note that the frame (telaio) is the 'final' version for the 2012 campaign and due the secrecy of the test, they (motocorse) assume that the whole bike is now in its 2012 guise.

Additionally (in previouds articles) they have referenced internal team issues which have been a possible cause of the loss of direction in ducati over the past few years and again they (motocorse) suggest this may be resolved in the 2011/12 off season with some team restructuring.

Finally they note the Ducati problems are similar to those of Honda with the NR500, ELF Honda and Aprilia's Cube - all machines which were technologically advanced yet complex enough to halt the projets and cause a rethink of the ideas and how applied. Obviously Aprilia have been proven just with thier early development of 'ride by wire' systems just unfortunate they were not able to (did not have) the management software available to fully utilise the advanced tech.

 

So where does this leave VR and Ducati?
With a 2011 Campaign in tatters and a 2012 looking like a tough road ahead.

And why?
Because Ducati chose a development route which has created an (almost) impossible bike to win one, but certainly an impossible bike to be consistent on.

The 2012 season will start with Ducati and VR on a new-new bike while the Honda and Yamaha will be evolved incarnations of the 800 and, quite rightly so for the Japanses, they have a good bike to build upon and can only get better.

Good luck 2012 VR, Ducati and all thier riders, because you ARE going to need it!!!

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caniborrowcaseyswife

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 50

cant be true ???

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxsports.com.au%2Fmotor-sports%2Fmoto-gp%2Fmotogp-star-valentino-rossi-says-ducati-bike-would-suit-shorter-riders-like-aussie-casey-stoner%2Fstory-fn2ms4i4-1226142545580&h=mAQAu_ADsAQBKKEAvPrZffakNMTBBq_5HAzjcTPdKl4nPgQ just read this , its so funny it cant be true can it ??

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DARMHA900SS

Joined:

Jul 09

Posts: 79

DARMHA900SS says:

Nice one NOSTRO!!!!

You see, it's amazing what you can achieve if you put your mind to it!

A real posting on the story and not one mention of Stoner or Lorenzo.

Very impressive.

Keep up the good work!!

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ow01fogno1

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 1625

ow01fogno1 says:

why

bit late for this now, it aint even a story to any race fan this season, the only thing we want to hear are faster lap times then hope rossi and nicki can get up there again. but why turn a winning italian bike into a jap bike. i still cant beleive ducati are even ditching steel trellis in road machines, thats the heritage that won them world titles, not a populatiry contest, shame i guess now i would only buy a classic duke from now on.i hope however tyhe results in the future for ducati get better.

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4971

Nostrodamus says:

Fairy Queens

Leemuz - That's the most balanced post I've ever read from you. I somehow think they were plagiarised words though. Better to just post the link least people get the wrong impression of you!

Wosideg. You make a valid point regarding the adjustability of the machine in its present guise. Although I will counter with Preziosi stating (albeit for the GP11 or 11.9 - it's difficult to keep up with this unprecedented inter season development Ducati are displaying 2011) the GP16 engine is bang in the middle of its adjustabilty range. Swinging arm in cases - well there is an adjuster at the rear should they wish to alter wheelbase length. Remember in this world 10mm of anything is radical.

The GP16 engine is the one thing Rossi likes about the bike (even if your club secretary Hardlylean thinks it's slow). Certainly nothing to change here.

As for C-F having run its course. Not by a long shot. 2011 is the first time the factory have admitted to themselves there's room for improvement with it and the first time they've actually produced a second generation version. To date we've seen three iterations of it. If we are to use the Honda example of 2010 (lets just say 5-7 chassis, rather than the wildly speculated without basis 20 some state) as a reference base, then Corse have a lot of room to improve. So Honda have nigh on thirty years experience manufacturing aluminium chassis' and still presented 3 options in the off season leading up to 2011 before their contracted riders - with a very mature design. I really don't see how Corse, regardless of all their engineering talent, are going to beat HRC at their own game.

This is a significant and clever race/ design team with a lot of external knowledge to draw upon - not John Britten and his mates laying up some CF in his garage in Christchurch. I don't think C-F is dead at Ducati. Just waylaid for the moment by the demands of their lead (lead is probably not the right word) rider.

Some are saying this latest incarnation twin spar semi stressed aluminium chassis is the set in stone 2012 version. If that's the case then perhaps Rossi likes the feedback that thing is giving him. Now he needs to do what he hasn't managed to date in 2011 - figure the damn thing out properly.

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acanada46

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 795

acanada46 says:

ow01fogno1

why turn a winning italian bike into a jap machine..

there not,cf frame has reached its full potential at this time so in comes twin spar ...no good flogging a dead horse.

 

 

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Brazen

Joined:

Nov 10

Posts: 85

Brazen says:

leemuz

I'm not bitter and twisted. Im pointing out the FACT that despite MASSIVE capital investment and tan inability to be humble in their approah whatsoeverc, VR/JB & Co are failing and miserably so. I'm sorry about that. I truelly am.

 

NOW, Rossi's inability to perform would all be ok if it weren't for the FACT that all through 2010 Valentino Rossi (and even JB) made VERY PUBLIC statements that:

1. They could make the bike handle better in 80 seconds

2. Caey Stoner needed to ride the bike more/develop it more.

There were, ofcourse, other derogatry statements made towards Stoner ALL YEAR. And why folks??

Because Valentino Rossi is a BITTER and TWISTED idiot with likeminded fans ( looks at leemuz^^).

Casey Stoner on the other hand did not retort against these nasty, snide remarks from VR whatsoever. NOPE.  And why folks? Because he is the better man and the better rider.

And this year, whilst Rossi makes EXCUSE AFTER EXCUSE, from sore body parts to bad design to rider height, to (latest) tyres to fuck knows whatever else.....HAS Casey Stoner made a single comment against Valentino Rossi?? NOPE. Nothing. And why folks?

Because THAT is what a TRUE CHAMPION does. It's what casey is doing. Would Valentino Rossi miss such an opportunity to demoralise a man at his core?? NEVER! He is well known for public mockery of his opponets and even his own team-mates!

DO Rossi fans admit this? HELL NO! Ergo- perfect matc as stated below.

 

Casey Stoner will equa VR's 2x Motogp Chamionships in just 2 more moths.

Come next year, VR will hopefully have whatever fear he has out of the way (I DO HOPE) so that he can show us what he can do on a new bike.

I hope he does very, very well.

BUT either way, I HOPE he doesn't resort to his snivelling, nasty back-biting ways. To this day, he is still a caniving, public backstabber who alienates his teammates, his rivals and craves attention like a LITTLE GIRL.

 

So if Rossi stops:

1. Acting like a LITTLE GIRL

2. Riding like a LITTLE GIRL

 

He may just get a few intelligent fans instead of his current fan-base; which is nothing more than a horde of mindless automitons with low IQ's, a collective mob mentality, hatred of anyone that beats him and frankly, no personalities of their own.

Birds of a feather, they stick toogether.

 

P.S. Im also a huge Hayden Fan, Pedrosa fan, Lorenzo fan..any rider who shuts his mouth and doesnt bitch-talk. ergo everyone except Rossi- who thinks he OWNS MOTOGP.

Stoner is now lined up to crack every record in Motogp (and that IS a fact). He has broken so many already.

So far he has EASILY beaten Rossi on:

Pole Positions

Lap Records

MOTOGP WINS

...and he has beaten him a by a LOT.

 

Rossi fans- just sit yourselves  down, make yourselves comfortable, take your plastic spoons in your right hand and prepare for to eat humble pie :)

 

mmm...mmmm EAT THAT SHIT UP!

<snigger<

 

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4971

Nostrodamus says:

Yes Wosi D for Dozy

Naughty of me to inadvertently spread misinformtion. There's those on here far better than me at that!

Ducati eggs in one Stoner basket? Isn't that what all factories have ever done? Isn't that what Ducati continue to do today? At least Stoner's basket could hold a few more eggs than Rossi's.

I also think Ducati Corse had genuine reason to believe the C-F chasssis was a good thing. Certainly superior to the steel lattice by all accounts. Hayden last year managed to rack up numerous fourth and fifth place finishes (aided by Stoners demise at times of course!), which frankly is par for Nicky's course regardless of what machine he is riding. Stoner had a strong 2009 on this machine (sickness period notwithstanding). 2010 well those issues are well documented and all point to the nature of the tyres which did magnify the flaws in the GP10.

The crying shame of the C-F is simply that there was no development in these initial two years (2009-2010). I firmly believe if Stoner had half the support Rossi is now receiving we would have a far more competitive GP11 on the grid than we do right now.

2011 has proven numerous things to us. One of the biggest is the myth you Wosi always liked to perpetuate - Stoner can't set-up a bike. It is now abundantly clear that Stoner and crew are in all probability THE best at this mystical art.

Whilst it was not eloquently put, the gist of what Brazen says is very true. You and your little yellow oompa loompahs love to label Stoner a 'whinger' and Rossi as some fun loving care free spirit, all the while never acknowledging his underlying selfish and malicious hubristic persona. Ah but it's all probably just 'gamesmanship' isn't it. There's another arena Stoner has excelled in over Rossi - maturity.

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