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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Ducati happy with testing rule boost

New testing regulations for MotoGP will help Ducati try and bridge the gap to Japanese rivals Honda and Yamaha, according to the Bologna factory’s technical guru Filippo Preziosi. MotoGP bosses have relaxed the testing restrictions for next year, meaning Ducati can use Valentino Rossi and Nicky Hayden much more to develop the new GP12 1000cc machine. Ducati can use Rossi as often...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (11 November 2011 14:27)

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mikehannan

Joined:

Jun 11

Posts: 44

mikehannan says:

Italian and Japanese development

The whole Rossi argument just clouds the issue.  The Italians are still looking for a silver bullet to solve their problems.  Dramatic and innovative design gestures are the Italian way and it is one of the things we like about Italian products.  When they work they are brilliant; at least until everyone else copies the idea and improves the engineering!
The Japanese way is to develop by incremental improvement.  This seems to be a better way to make a race bike go faster when you have a strict set of design rules and standard tyres.  The success of Japanese engineering in cars and bikes is plain to see. 
Stoner has been very guarded in his comments on Ducati, but from the little he has said he was very unhappy that they consistently failed to make changes that he felt were needed. 
As for the Rossi v Stoner rubbish, it isn't really the point.  Rossi is a great champion and has been the second best rider of the 800cc era with 21 wins.
Stoner is also a great champion and has been the best rider of the 800cc era with 33 wins.  In other words, you could drop Stoner's 10 Honda wins from his total and he would still have more wins that the second place Rossi. 
For the 800cc bikes at least, there isn't much of an argument about riders and the Ducati doesn't seem to have been a problem.   

 

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Yamaha3358

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Mar 11

Posts: 1386

Yamaha3358 says:

As for the testing rule.. yes it will benefit every manafacturer but i think the organizers primarily had Ducati in mind when making the decision. Yes, it will help others but most likely Ducati will improve the most.. that's if their not taken in the wrong direction again.

 

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Yamaha3358

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Mar 11

Posts: 1386

Yamaha3358 says:

What do you think of the 2013 rules ?

I think its 100% the wrong decision to make. BSB have decided to go all EVO in 2012, and that is why i am unlikely to go to even one round next year. When i used to go, i enjoyed seeing the machinery in Pitlane, the garages and of course out on track. It's a nice feeling to walk up and stand next to a factory race bike. Knowing it's one of the best on the grid in terms of parts, development, electronics and overall technology. Standing next to an EVO bike.. yeah, great but it's not factory equipment. No trick parts and it's just not nearly as impressive when looking under the fairings.

I am hoping it won't be the same with Motogp. Going backwards is not the answer. Someone should give that twat Ezpeleta a slap, he's made to many shite decisions and it's time he pissed off. Do i want to see better racing ? sure, but not if it means the bikes are over 2 seconds a lap slower than before. Im equally as interested in the bikes themselves as much as the racing. To be honest i have no problem with then reducing the traction along with other things but it all just depends on how much slower they're going to be. Obviously im not going to make an impact on the decision for 2013 but i just wanted to make clear that Ezpeleta can go fist himself.

Motogp is prototype racing, the cutting edge of technology on the racetrack. It should be kept that way.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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yzrm1

Joined:

Jan 11

Posts: 291

yzrm1 says:

Rossi Rule

yes it is a Rossi Rule!!! yes in italy they know how to bend or change rules!!! never hear anybuddy cry about the old testing rules.!!! Ducati/preziozi/Rossi/burgess/ and still no develop??! WELL LETS CHANGE THE RULES....... THIS IS JUST BULL$h!T........ Stoner could ride it, just twist the throttle more. P.S Rossi never ever should have leave Yamaha.

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carcleanerboy

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Jul 10

Posts: 1389

bultoboy

Well said with most of your last post, im not a lover of egos or personalities either. You cant compare  riders from different eras because so much changes every year that have massive effects on the racing.

Rossi did have a good base to start with on both the honda and the yamaha so it wasnt such a hard task to turn the bike into a winner. His strength for me in his dominent period was how well he and burgess would set the bike up at different tracks to win. They would often sacrifice top speed for better acceleration out of the corners etc.

The modern times with everything being computer controlled has lessened that skill to need to bikes the ols way. The frameless bike is a totally new thing to the old school riders hence their prefference to go back to what they know.

Their are too many people on here want to argue that stoner would have been winning on the Ducati still because of the personality thing but i dont buy that. Stoner has been on the oddball Ducati from the start and in my logic developed a feel for how to get the best out of it. But even his best wasnt enough to turn it into a title winner and he was winning fewer races each year.

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jollyboy

Joined:

Sep 11

Posts: 402

jollyboy says:

I don't think limiting testing is the best way to reduce costs anyway. For a start the biggest spenders will always find ways round the restrictions anyway. And I'm not just talking about building extra bikes for test riders to ride in secret tests. Or testing specific components on non-GP bikes. There is also the very real possibility of the biggest teams using computer modelling that the lesser teams can't afford. In other words the biggest spenders will always manage to spend a lot more money than the rest and will dominate as a result. I also have a problem with limited testing from a safety point of view. If teams can't test new parts and new setups in test sessions then they will be forced to test them on race weekends. In an open test riders can slowly build speed on a new part or new setup with no pressure. They do not have that luxury on a race weekend. Remember the days in F1 when it seemed barely a race would go by without a driver being killed? Some of the many crashes were down to teams forcing drivers to use untested modifications under race conditions. That was down largely to the fact that the pace of development was what won and lost championships. More rigid rules have reduced that particular problem, but resticting testing time could artificially reintroduce those conditions.

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buelligan272

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Jul 06

Posts: 2037

buelligan272 says:

why indeed

Bultoboy I dont really care if you like Rossi or not.
You are entitled to your opinion just like we all are however I can assure you that you are wrong in a lot of what you say.
What gets me is the fact that some people think they know the riders personalities and that these riders are the same as they see them on TV , during interviews and at the racetrack however that is certainly not the case with them all.
I wont go into detail but I can assure you Rossi and Stoner for that matter are completely different characters when away from the cameras the track and Moto GP and there is no big ego infact quite the opposite.

Again I am not prepared to argue but I can also assure you that Jeremy Burgess is far more than an engineer and has a massive talent when it comes to motorcycles.
Rossi can ride round problems despite what you say.All riders at that level can ride round problems but how many can ride round the Ducati ones?
The involvement of Rossi and Burgess is far more than you say but if you have never been involved in the sport you only go by what you hear and read.
Sorry you have got involved in another Rossi debate but try to stop knocking other peoples opinions thinking that you are always right because you are not.




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carcleanerboy

Joined:

Jul 10

Posts: 1389

frameless wonder and stoner

Buelligan, Bulto was right in alot of his points, the problem when it comes to the arguments on here is based on people dislike or love of either rider be it Stoner or Rossi.

The fact the CF frameless ducati has fallen further behind the rest of the field with both Stoner and Rossi on it seems lost on the Stoner fans who want to get at the Rossi fans. Stoner rode it from its introduction and has won few races each years. Its got to have helped him be able to get the best out of it with being on it from the start.

The Rossi fans are finding it hard to admit their man isnt the god like genius they thought he was now he's admitted he cant get on with the fickle narrow set up machine. His rep has taken a kicking as he and Ducati have thrown everything and the kitchen sink at it to try make it work. ( and failed)

The truth IMO is that neither Stoner or Rossi could make the frameless cf bike into a championship winner and both sets of fans need to stop spouting shit at each other, its not helping anyone and getting very boring.

Moto GP is sadly getting far too much like Formula 1 where technictions and engineers are every bit as much the stars as the riders. If you put stoner or Rossi on a suzuki do you think either would have won a race this year? no feckin chance. Back in the day a great rider on an average bike would have been in with a shout at  afew races, but not now. the bikes are far too advanced

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Hedgehog5

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Aug 02

Posts: 2319

Hedgehog5 says:

Carcleaner...

"Stoner rode it from its introduction and has won few races each years. "

17 podiums on the CF bike... that's 2 less than Pedrosa in 2009/10 on what is now considered by some as the best bike on the grid... Stoner on the CF Ducati actually scored more wins than Pedrosa during that time!... but the bike was useless... obviously... 'cos Rossi can't ride it.

"The truth IMO is that neither Stoner or Rossi could make the frameless cf bike into a championship winner..."

Stoner didn't & Rossi now won't... the point is that based on Stoner's performance at the end of last year both Rossi & JB (people rather more qualified than you to comment) evidently thought it could be a championship winner. Under Rossi of course everything has gone backwards & they've effectively wasted a year trying to develop something they eventually binned because, as he admitted, he couldn't ride it like Stoner.

JB - “It will probably give Valentino a lot of encouragement. The harder those boys work this year then perhaps the less he's got to do next year. Casey’s recent form will give everybody at Ducati some encouragement."

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3327

Bultoboy says:

ok Buel

In for a penny and all that as it's gone off topic

I don't think I am always right and will readily accept someone proving me wrong. If I know something for a fact I'll argue it, if it's my opinion I say as much. My opinion can be wrong as can anyone's.

I see enough of Rossi's personailty and behaviour at races, there's no need to meet him personally. Are you telling me there is no ego at play when someone craves the attention he does with those ludicrous post race celebrations. How about a lack of respect when he held up the entire podium ceremony when mimicking his resigning with Yamaha at the desk on the side of the track.  It was painful and went on and on and on. The gloating and 'rubbing in' of wins over Stoner and Lorenzo by interrupting their live TV interviews to 'congratulate them on a great race' (ie: ha ha I won) Funny he's never done that when he lost (he just sat on his bike in the winner's enclosure and refused to interview instead) He publicly derided the efforts of Stoner and his crew at Ducati. He refused to mention Biaggi's name on his website, before he'd ever raced against him or met him. He fell out with Gibernau and Melandri because they upset him (by doing nothing wrong) Attempted to block Lorenzo's signing with Yamaha because he doesn't want an equal team mate (the mark of a true sportsman who wants it written into a contract that he gets superior equipment) Refusal to datashare (which contradicts his fans' opinion that he will develop a bike for everyone to ride...  I could go on. I don't dispute his riding ability.

Burgess - I will never dispute that he is a talented mechanic and good with bike preparation and set up. I merely said he was not a trained designer or engineer and he isn't. He has no qualifications or schooling in that respect. I'm prepared to be proved wrong but I suspect if you stuck a set of equations in front of him that explained how to formulate the grade of aluminium required for a frame construction he'd have as much success decyphering them as I would a sentence in Japanese.

If Rossi and Burgess have such an impact on bike development (would you say that is the same as or different from design?) what on earth has happened at Ducati this year. Given previous claims that they took only a few weeks to 'turn a Yamaha into a winner'.

You seem to think it matters to me whether Rossi is successful or not. It doesn't, I don't care if he wins again or not, races or championship.

As I've said before, most of the comments on this forum are squabbling between fans - my rider's better than yours etc. Most of the comments are aimed at each other, not the riders. There is a need to differentiate. My comments above are about Rossi in response to yours. Nothing I have said is untrue. If it is I am willing to be proved wrong.

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