Skip to content

Discuss This Ducati happy with testing rule boost MotoGP

You are in... Forums > Discuss This > MotoGP > Ducati happy with testing rule boost

This is a discussion topic

This discussion topic is linked to an article on this site. You can navigate to the article by clicking on the article name in the first post.

Go to most recent reply

Anonymous

Joined:

Posts:

Matthew Birt  says:

Ducati happy with testing rule boost

New testing regulations for MotoGP will help Ducati try and bridge the gap to Japanese rivals Honda and Yamaha, according to the Bologna factory’s technical guru Filippo Preziosi. MotoGP bosses have relaxed the testing restrictions for next year, meaning Ducati can use Valentino Rossi and Nicky Hayden much more to develop the new GP12 1000cc machine. Ducati can use Rossi as often...

Reply to this Topic  
  • Posted 3 years ago (11 November 2011 14:27)

Post a message in MotoGP

Fields marked with an asterisk * are required

   

Please note. You cannot submit more than 4000 characters as a message.

Upload image(s) from your computer (up to 3 images)

  1.  
  2.  
  3.  

Terms of use

Use of our community areas and forums is subject to important terms of use. By joining our community and using the features you agree to be bound by these terms. See terms of use below. 

Cancel
WLF2001

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 37

WLF2001 says:

Bultoboy

I agree Bulto, but I cant think of anyone who has won a championship on an uncompetitive bike in the last ten years, including Rossi, races maybe. But to call his achievments a fluke or him a fraud is completley beyond me, though if anyone can show me some evidence I'm willing to listen. I could argue that you have to be classed a great rider to end up on a competitive bike in the first place, and to do it throughout your career proves a point (until now).  Those charged with seeking and contracting riders in these huge corporations are no fools. A God he is not, but a great rider he most definitley is, and I feel has a right to be classed as 1 of the few all time greats, I also believe Stoner could be, but not quite yet . . .

Reply to this Topic
Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3024

Bultoboy says:

Don't disagree with that

No-one will win a championship on an uncompetitive bike, no matter how good they are and this era, they'd be lucky to win a race. I think going straight onto the Honda 500 was a massive advantage/milestone in his career (I don't mean bike advantage as others were on them) What I mean is it was a bike that allowed him to immediately ride to the best of his ability and show what he could do. Had he gone straight onto the Yamaha, which wasn't a bad bike itself then, but maybe not as good as the Honda (impossible to say) he may not have had the immediate results against others already on the Honda, and his career path could have been quite different. All ifs and buts and I don't mean anything by it other than it pays to be in the right place at the right time. Some very very good riders, or drivers, arrive at a team just at the wrong moment and never get the equipment that enables them to win - illustrated a few times in recent years in F1.

For Rossi's wins, he beat the best of the rest and you don't fluke that many. Obviously you need the equipment and he had it and made the most of it. I just feel it is a shame that he let himself down with what happened at Yamaha. Far better if he had welcomed Lorenzo into the team, dropped all the political stuff and said 'right, I now have the strongest team mate I've ever had, we both have the same bike and support, I shall be trying my hardest to beat him, may the best man win'. You get the impression that Stoner or Lorenzo wouldn't care who their team mate was, as long as the treatment was fair and equal.

In the last few years, the competition has been much stronger than before, it's not a situation he is used to and he must be spewing to get back towards the front.  I think even if the Ducati gets sorted he is going to have a hell of a job winning again - races or title.

But I wouldn't bet against it..

As regards 'fraud' I think the cries mainly relate to this development skills issue - if the success of the Yamaha (and Honda according to some) was solely down to him giving his feedback and development steer to engineers, what happened this year.

Reply to this Topic
Milkybars

Joined:

Feb 11

Posts: 616

Milkybars says:

What happened this year

 

Well it's is obvious that Ducati and Rossi's team tried very hard to go along with Filippo Preziosi GP9 CF frame, and Rossi failed to come to grips as was every other riders, with the exception of Casey. Who came 4th on it in 2009 and 2010.

When Ducati's Preziosi stated that, "the basic idea is to abandon the classic concept of the chassis as the element that connects all other elements, in favour of a design in which the engine is the central element to which the main frame, rear sub-frame and rear suspension system are individually connected."  

contd.....'On the GP9 the main frame is formed to connect the engine to the steering head. The main frame now also incorporates the air-box in one single construction. This monocoque construction allows the air-box to function efficiently within the main frame.

Choosing to utilise the carbon fibre composite technology to create the frame means that, on the one hand, one can mould the piece into the desired form without incurring enormous equipment costs and, on the other hand, varying levels of rigidity and torsional characteristics can be attained simply by altering the type, the number and the directional orientation of the carbon fibres, using the same equipment.

He could not have been more wrong in hindsight. It was a good bike for one rider, but that rider was never going to win another World Championship on it.

Enter 2012 after many many debriefs in 2011 from Rossi and Hayden and all the other riders. They all want to revert to the aluminum twin spar frame and have gotten it. On the first virgin test being down by 1.5 to 2 or 3 secs seem bad, but now the iterations will begin on the frame. Lets see at Sepang. The wait seems endless.

Reply to this Topic
Hedgehog5

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 2315

Hedgehog5 says:

Milkybars...

"It was a good bike for one rider, but that rider was never going to win another World Championship on it."

Except Preziosi, JB & Rossi clearly thought it was, based on Stoner's performance on it (not Rossi's), a championship winning bike (it's widely documented)... & you're saying you know better than they did... doesn't say much for any of them does it... or you don't know what you're talking about... which is it to be?

PS... if you can respond without mentioning "milky panty brigade" it would be good... it creeps people out & reinforces the latter supposition.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3024

Bultoboy says:

CHassis design

According to Preziosi, the beam frame bike they have been testing is a direct copy of the CF frame in terms of dimensions and weight distribution. So although a different frame design/construction, the bike is a direct copy dimensionally  in terms of engine position, suspension pickup points, swingarm pivot, fork angle etc. - all identical to the CF bike - presumably, in view of what he said.

The reason - to follow the prinicple of changing just one thing at a time when evaluating change. In this case, substituting an alloy frame for the CF frame with all else constant, as the CF frame has been blamed for the handling problems they are suffering.

So, does the fact that Rossi is reporting exactly the same problems as with the CF bike suggest that Preziosi's original CF design is not to blame and that there is an as yet unidentified problem with the geometry of the chassis dimensions? Not the chassis material/design?

Interesting, and interesting to watch how this develops.

Reply to this Topic
davevr46

Joined:

Feb 11

Posts: 180

davevr46 says:

So, does the fact that Rossi is reporting exactly the same problems as with the CF bike suggest that Preziosi's original CF design is not to blame and that there is an as yet unidentified problem with the geometry of the chassis dimensions? Not the chassis material/design?

 

all this suggests to me is that, there's nothing wrong with the CF as a material.

if the bike feels more or less the same CF or not, then its not CF.,I think its a problem with the geometry/ chassis design.

Ducati need to get the design working and competetive using aluminum first, the maybe if its good, replicate the dimensions and geometry into a frameless design (the opposite of what they are doing now), then if that frameless design using alloy is ok, last but not least, make it out of carbon fibre....and see what happens.


[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
acanada46

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 794

acanada46 says:

cfframe vs conventional

with the conventional frame ducati can now move and tilt the central mass,( the engine ) to numerous position to alter the weight distribution,With the cf frame this was not possible.As preziosi has stated the bike you saw at valencia has a prototype frame and is not what they will race with next year.

Reply to this Topic
Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3024

Bultoboy says:

I'm wondering if Preziosi is also out to make a point. A new frame but everything else the same. No obvious immediate benefit (I know there is a long way to go and there could be many more incarnations of that frame) I'm just wondering if he has a point to prove and is sayiing look, new frame, all else the same, same results. Maybe my CF frameless concept isn't the problem, it is a fault with the layout / geometry?

As regards engine postion, he has always said that this was not an issue on the CF frame and that it was in the middle of the available adjustment parameters.

The current frame is as much a protoype 'mule' as the other factories at this stage, so no great surprise there. They will all evolve in their own ways. Honda have had two already and will have a third by Sepang

Reply to this Topic
motoking

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 968

motoking says:

CONCLUSION

please choose the option below :

1. ROSSI GO TO WSBK (i suggest so)

2. ROSSI GO RETIRE

3. KEEP EMBARASSING HIMSELF WITH MORE THAN 1 YEARS TESTING (not include unlimited 2012)

 

i choose no. 2. he just lucky to have all that luck before stoner and lorenzo arrive. beaten so shamefull in the end of his career isn't good.

Reply to this Topic
acanada46

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 794

acanada46 says:

conclusion 2

please choose the option below

1.motoking for mcn editor

2.motoking to ducati 2012

3.keep embarassing himself with inane postings (not including 2012

4.emigrate to australia (unless he already lives there)

please feel free to post any other suggestions.

 

Reply to this Topic

Compare Insurance

Save money by comparing quotes. It's quick and easy

Motorcycles for sale

 

It's only £13.99 to advertise your motorcycle on MCN

Sell your Motorcycle