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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Dorna gauging factory opinion on future MotoGP rules

Dorna boss Carmelo Ezpeleta is in the process of staging individual meetings with senior management from Honda, Yamaha and Ducati over plans to introduce radical changes to technical rules in MotoGP. With the on-going global economic crisis continuing to have a major impact in the MotoGP paddock, Ezpeleta has threatened sweeping rule changes to slash costs in world championship racing. Ezpeleta has...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (16 December 2011 21:31)

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chrisg011

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 846

chrisg011 says:

well said Cosher

either the sport mirrors the factories wishes and implodes, or mirrors reality and changes.

As much as Carmelo has made duff decisions, he is working to find a solution and putting ideas on the table. In a recent interview in one of the Italian mags he described how the sport MUST transform to face the realities of todays (economic) situation.

Those changes must start now with CRT and 2013 the sport will look different.
However the factories are not playing ball and are not willing to accept that the tech limits will retain the invention and excitement - rather the factories wish to see tech blossom until there are a few bikes running rings - a glorified test session with the occassional race in the first few laps.

And a comparison must be drawn with F1, a sport which is rising back to its former glory through innovation and regulation - an embarassing fact that the MotoGP manufacturers should heed.

 

So all you protagonists.. what would you do to save the sport?

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motogpnorival

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 93

No longer relevant.....

........ there was a time when you could safely say that the motorcycle racing prototype was a test bed for what would eventually end up on the the road on the bikes we could buy, in general...... this is no longer the rule and pretty much all the striving to create the perfect road bike can be done via R&D facilities and a good CAD programme.... This has put a different slant on the importance of the Brand/track success relationship. Did the success of Valentino Rossi on the 990 Honda send CBR sales through the roof then or since.... or are we now seeing the technology used on that bike all over the CBR, and does anybody care.... that is to say would the average CBR geek know if it was.....Let you work that one out !! The same goes for the M1/R1.. Thanks to the obsession with superbikes the true interest in prototype machinery has all but disappeared except for the minority/real enthusiast/connoisseur..... it's become superbike versus MotoGP for the average bod with no real grasp of what either class is or stands for...... there is also a span of attention thing going on... you can work that out too.... This all started when some bright spark came up with the idea that what we actually saw on the track on any weekend should bare some direct resemblance to the bikes we were riding on the road, some kind of identification thing..... I more often than not made it to the track on RD's when this was first being banded around, I did not want to see my bike on the track.... except when it looked, sounded and performed like a TZ. The Foggy/916 phenomenon highlighted this perfectly....... No closer to the answer in all this I know and if I was..... you would hear it here first...... Next.

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5175

Nostrodamus says:

Let's hope pragmatism wins out

Unlike the basket case states of Septic or Euroland where no politician is willing to face up to the truly daunting economic reality of the now.

Some nice comments below. As much as many of us have berated Ezpeleta in the past he's doing the right thing now. He's drawn an extreme line in the sand on his side, and we are presuming Honda have on the other side with Nakamoto. From what I've read Nakamoto is willing to negotiate and we can only hope Ezpeleta is too. The sport doesn't necessarily need the factories, but they do add a healthy dose of techincal glamour, which I for one enjoy, and which is supposedly their raison d'etre for being in the game at all. The game is better with them than without.

To the poster below if you care to look at virtually all the current crop of commercial litre machines they drip with filtered down MotoGP technology - mechanical and electronic.

WSBK will return more to it's roots now that the rights holders of both series are under the same commercial umbrella. A lot more backroom wheel and dealing to be thrashed out yet though.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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archie347

Joined:

Dec 11

Posts: 2

archie347 says:

moto gp

Good stuff, let's get rid of Carmello and let the factories make all the rules, be really great to watch about six full factory bikes circulating line astern costing £20 million each. At the end of the day factories or no factories the paying public just want to see good close racing, you just have to decide on a set of technical regulations that everyone has to work within. The teams with the biggest budget and the best riders will always rise to the top but hopefully the gap from front runners to tail-enders will be reduced to a sensible level. Moto GP is a sport but we have to accept that it is also a commercial venture, the fans watching on t.v. and walking through the gate on raceday are just as important as the factories and if nobody is watching where is all the sponsors' money going to come from. Just the ramblings of a knackered ex-racer, excuse any grammatical mistakes I've been on the beer all afternoon

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motogpnorival

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 93

The first big.......

....... and shocking rule change fresh in my memory was the banning of high octane fuels and replacing it with unleaded...... 500 two strokes.. with what was described as pressure from the green lobby and everyone having to be seen to clean-up there act, I was devastated by what seemed like shortsightedness and attempt to appease a trend. This was world championship motorcycle racing, and in the grand scheme of things did the few hours these bikes circulated around the tracks of the world really make an impact on the state of the planet..... The two stroke really was portrayed as the villain, emissions out of control..... filthy beasts, the clean-up brigade picked on an easy target and set upon it...... so every man and his dog was heading 4 stroke...... OK the writing was on the wall, GP's where heading that way too.... up popped the pros and cons, and in the blink of an eye the 990's where rolled out.... even I was mildly excited. The transitional year 1 was game on as the 990's did battle with the 500's, seemed almost a pity to wave to 500's goodbye..... Speed was up, lap times tumbled and the 200mph plus speeds were common place..... not forgetting of course the riders were reveling in the new format...... well, most of them..... An unfortunate part of the equation was a fatality at Suzuka...... and that triggered calls to slow things down and make GP's safer....... reduce the engine size and the bikes will be slower and therefore safer....... what was everyone thinking, then the electronics and rider aids would make the power easier to handle.... all the time the costs where spiraling.. next the world went into economic meltdown, so no more talk of safety and saving the planet....... something far more important, we had to save money....... What GP's need is more control and a new set of rules. Tyres and engines that ought to do it........ meanwhile here we all are debating the next set of rule changes, 1000cc's.... CRT....... and still no money in the system.......

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Eddy998

Joined:

Oct 06

Posts: 587

Eddy998 says:

Seems like a

crock of s++t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The whole "Moto GP" thing is going down, down, down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everything controlled!! Moto 2, or the Honda Cup series, all Honda controlled engines. What a disaster. Then we have Moto 3, single cylinder!! hahahaha, engined bikes, how boring! Next controlled ecu's, rev limits, what's next?? Oh and I forgot, road bikes in  Moto GP now as well!! That's going to be fun!! Not really, probably going to be dangerous, with a 20mph or more speed difference. The whole thing has become a farce. I think there going to find that the attendance is going to fall off dramatically. Moto GP is or has, just about, lost it's glamour. If it wasn't for Ducati, Honda and Yamaha it would close tomorrow! Ciao

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Fixer

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 15

Fixer says:

MotoGP

Sorry but I'm an oldie and I remember when ALL the bikes contesting the 500cc championship were based on bikes you could buy and ride on the roads. This made the breed stronger and the skill of the riders was enviable. Even the MVs were available to buy and ride on the road Honda, with their 6 cylinder 250cc, Yamaha with a 5 cylinder 125cc, seem to me to be the people that started running pure prototype bikes. Yes, they're running 1000cc bikes next year BUT with amazing electronic controls taking probably 50% of the skill factor out. This will inevitably lead to the collapse of MotoGP due to spiralling costs. Look at Formula 1 - I don't it's too boring! Why don't they just start at the end of the pits and see who can do the fastest wheel change and re-fuel? Save a lot of time and money? Should I be writing this to Bernie Ecclestone? Running the CRT bikes will be far more interesting...Did you watch BSB this year? There wasn't one MotoGP race, that I remember, that was as good as any of the BSB racing. Superbikes with all restrictions removed regarding chassis, brakes, suspension and engine tuning would have a better knock-on effect for road bikes and closer racing would be far more interesting. Does anyone think that Casey Stoner put in as much effort on the Honda as Bautista did on the Suzuki. I don't. The Hondas were brilliant and I bet they had the biggest budget. I'm lucky, I'm an oldie and remember Mike the Bike, Bill Ivy, Giacomo Agostini (amazing even now), Jarno Sarrinen, Phil Read, and their like. Riding bikes that bent the chassis under acceleration but riding, possibly, 3 different engine sizes in one day. most of what was ridden in the 60's was road based or became road based. Anyone got a Honda 5 cylinder MotoGP based road bike? So what came out of that that was any good for the normal road rider? I appreciate that, as this is an open forum for comments, that this will upset some of you but I found Moto2 far better than MotoGP in 2011, and BSB was the best of the lot. By the by, I'm a member of Mensa and I was the first person to ride a sidecar outfit all the way through Mongolia this year. I also own 4 bikes, Valkyrie, Fazer 1000, XT600E and a TTR250. I ride all of the year and I like green-laning. You will not change my opinion by replying to this but I look forward to someone less than half my age flaming me for no reason other than I decided to voice my opinion! Thank you.

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5175

Nostrodamus says:

Mensa man

Please explain to me how you derived your 50% skill reduction figure through electronics? I don't see these boys one hand on the bars smoking a fag? Stoners says he has the traction control turned right down to get the drive / slide exits he does.

You may be over looking Chris Boyle and Mick Matheson's 3 wheeled Contal motorcycle used in the Peking to Paris 1907 race reinactment of a few years ago too.

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pinkerton2964

Joined:

Nov 11

Posts: 109

Back to basics

The best way to solve a problem is to simplify or go back to basics. The main problem with the current bikes are the ridiculous amounts of electronics not only can a good electronics package make or break a bike but allows riders who can adapt to them to prosper when they may not have the talent. We know that electronics dont make anyone a superstar but they help when it comes to making a tyre last or entering a corner without backing in or exiting a corner. I believe that not only do the electronics cost a huge amount to develop and set up but make it almost impossible for teams who dont have the same electronics to run at the front, it also takes away from the purity of motorcycle racing a good rider does not need them and thats what I would like to see again large horsepower brave talented riders sideways dicing for a win without hiding behind software. The riders of the past did seem tougher and less bitchy moaners than they are now I think get rid of the electronics save a huge amount of cash, get better quality riders and best of all improve the show. 

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Commando828

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 188

Commando828 says:

Just like politicians

You couldn't dream it up

Kill the sucessful 990s

Limit the engines to 6pa, so making them even more expensive to last.

Changing the 800s AFTER the meltdown

Telling the only three supporters of your ideas, that some cheapo upstarts may be up there too!

The only alternatives for competative, watchable racing is to have super (many manufacturers?) WSBK (is that CRT?) and de-tuned cheap WSBK  - is that BSB?

The only watchable thing about Motogp is that you're watching the best bikes and the best riders - but that is sadly only a cerebal thing - NOT red blooded racing.

If GP could have a fraction of F1's nous, with its Emporer's Clothes overtaking on the straight boosts - ludicrous

 

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