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Anonymous

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Steve Farrell  says:

Cycle group: Don’t let motorcycles in more bus lanes

A cycle group says local authorities should not copy London’s scheme of allowing motorcycles in bus lanes. The London Cycling Campaign says the trial should “act as a warning to other authorities” even though it has been deemed successful enough for the measure to be introduced permanently in the capital. The group claims the scheme has delivered no safety benefits. The...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (22 December 2011 17:07)

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SatNavSteve

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Sep 10

Posts: 1270

SatNavSteve says:

hairyMuppet

Some good points there mate. As for why they fan the flames of division, its to create debate on pages like this!

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eatcs01

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Aug 02

Posts: 3261

eatcs01 says:

Markinnormy

"As for all the daft rants about road tax, can I just point out that road tax was abolished in 1937 by Churchill. We have vehicle excise duty, which at present is based on the amount of pollution put out by vehicles, ie. no pollution - no duty."

 

Vehicle excise duty, is road tax by another name.

 

You've shown yourself up as a non biker/motorcyclist/bike owner here, as MOTORBIKE road tax is NOT based on emmisions, it's based on engine capacity. If it was, we would pay a LOT less than ANY car.

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CBRJGWRR

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 508

CBRJGWRR says:

Eatcs01

emissions arent nessarilly better with bikes....

 

Cyclist and bicyclist are two different things. cyclists have a level of ability to use the road network, and generally obey the law.

bicyclists are everybody else, who ride on pavements, run reds, have no lights, on the wrong side of the road (I've seen a bycycle rider nearly hit a police car head on) and generallly display a total disregard for their own safety.

big difference.

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demon6698

Joined:

Sep 11

Posts: 1

demon6698 says:

V5C

On some bikes V5C the taxation class is Bicycle - therefore wouldn't that mean that bicycles should be taxed due to equality? Discuss but don't hate please :) i'm nice really :)

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SatNavSteve

Joined:

Sep 10

Posts: 1270

SatNavSteve says:

CBRJGWRR!

Don't understand the difference between cyclist and bicyclist, can you explain please how I can differentiate between one or the other when I see them on the road? Its like calling us either bikers or motorcyclists. Never heard this one before but always willing to hear someone elses point. I've seen thousands of cyclists over the years of all descriptions riding in all manner of styles but the ones that annoy me the most are the bicycle clubs that ride down roads like they own it, quite often on country lanes 2 or 3 abreast and refusing to move over to let cars past. Riding 2 abreast would be the first thing I would make illegal if I were in power. Also, third party insurance should be made compulsory for cyclists. Thats the least they can do for all the free roads they get to ride on, maintained without any costs to themselves! Unless they are so arrogant, they think they should be able to travel totally free forever. And don't give me that crap about them paying in their taxes! We all do that.

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hairyMuppet

Joined:

Dec 03

Posts: 317

hairyMuppet says:

Final points

If, as reported, cyclists are 11.9% sfer with bikers sharing the lane, then the cyclists in London need to vote out there current committee as the appear to be demand that cycling be made more dangerous by removing bikers from bus lanes.

Although I do note his choice of words: "no safety benefit".  Reads like an implicit admission that safety hasn't been reduced.

As to differenticating between a cyclist and a bicyclist, how does one differentiate between a biker and an asshole?  You have to let their behaviour inform you and remind yourself that the leather/lycra louts are the minority.  Despite what your perception bias tells you.

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gordonglover

Joined:

Feb 04

Posts: 16

gordonglover says:

I CYCLE TO WORK OR USE MY MOTORBIKE (bandit1250) OR THE CAR at 54 years old i try to keep fit its only about 10 miles but i get loads of sh-t from cars and lorries,,,, bus lane , bike lane whatever its sometimes terrifying the how close they ride to me total w--kers ,so far all the bikers have been good ;;;maybe its a different mentality

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CBRJGWRR

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 508

CBRJGWRR says:

Okay...

Hairymupet said it right - their behaviour tells you which sort they are, same with bikers and arseholes, as was put.

You have to make a judgement bicycle by bicycle, same with cars, bikes, buses, trucks, tractors, pedestrians, etc.

SatNavSteve - easy way to tell is to work out how much road sense they have, weather they are just bumbling along not really aware of whats going on, or are they using their senses to stay out of trouble.

Its a sense you develop as you use it. Some bicycle riders are great on road sense, others don't have any, like the bloke who nearly head on-ed a police car...

Similarly, some car drivers are aware of whats going on far more than most are aware.

And there are some bike riders who shouldn't be on the road, but there are lots who make the roads safer.

 

You have to make the judgement based on how that person is doing at the time, and no one can really explain how. You no doubt already do it, you just might not have realised that you do.

 

 

All motorcycle V5's I own have taxation class as bicycle, it isn't just you demon6698. I thought it was a carry over from when motorcycles were bicycles with engines personally. May be wrong though.

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oceaa

Joined:

Dec 08

Posts: 13

oceaa says:

read the LCC report and view their trustees

This is the view being promulgated on their website by this very bizare campaign group which claims 11000 members and seems to be operating as a charity. Is any of it true? ;

Despite three years of trials showing increased danger, Transport for London is going ahead with its plans to allow motorbikes to permanently use red-route bus lanes in line with Mayor Boris Johnson's 2008 election promise.

The report on the second 18-month trial, published on 21 December 2011, shows a sharp increase in both motorcyclist fatalities on red-route bus lanes and the rate of cyclist collisions with motorbikes.

Cyclist-motorcyclist collisions increased from 10 to 25, while motorcyclist deaths increased from one in the first 18-month trial to seven in the second trial.

Collision rates for motorcyclists didn't improve significantly during the second trial, which included an extensive and expensive police-enforcement programme to reduce the large number of motorcyclists ignoring speed limits.

TfL's press release makes no mention of any safety gains despite initiating the original trial expecting safety improvements.

The first trial concluded that "motorcyclists appear to be less safe since the scheme has been introduced".

The second trial says its results "did not change the relative overall safety of motorcyclists".

The second London-wide trial also found that "collision rates of cyclists with motorcyclists on the TLRN (red route) bus network during the current trial significantly increased".

London Cycling Campaign chief executive Ashok Sinha said, "Cyclists and motorcyclists are both especially vulnerable to bad road policies; TfL's action does nothing to reduce danger for either group."

LCC's road danger expert Charlie Lloyd said, "The overwhelming conclusion from the latest bus lane trial is, yet again, that there are no safety benefits.

"The results of this trial should act as a warning to other authorities not to risk allowing motorcycles in bus lanes."
 

 

http://lcc.org.uk/pages/board

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De Puniet

Joined:

Sep 08

Posts: 11

De Puniet says:

MCN - Total garbage as usual

I loathe MCNs anti cyclist rehtoric. The journalist here really are gutter trash and should be working for the daily mail. Still waiting on the headline stating that immigrants are killing motorcycling. Funny that cyclists pose a microscopic threat compared to drivers in cars yet MCN steer away from upsetting anyone in a car because they are gutless and dont want to upset the majority who are terrified of travelling anywhere without getting in a car.

As a person who happens to like to choose between a car, a bicycle, a motorcycle, walking and public transport for his transport options I find this type of journalism completely hypocritical. MCN cry that we are constantly being attacked as a group then go and do exactly the same to a group even more vulnerable as us. Bravo you MCN  gutless cretins. Bravo.   

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