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Anonymous

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Andy Downes  says:

How tiny MV Agusta threw down a challenge to big boys

MV claim their new F3 will take the supersport class by storm, thanks to its high power, light weight and sophisticated electronics. But how can a company with a fraction of the staff and investment of the major players manage to build a class-leading bike for competitive money? MCN’s visit to MV’s Italian factory reinforced just what an achievement this would...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (23 December 2011 13:36)

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speedo007

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May 09

Posts: 508

speedo007 says:

Impressive for such a small company...

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X2Glider

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May 10

Posts: 427

X2Glider says:

Hopeful, but...

I still want to see MV in a comparison test someday to really see how they measure up off the spec sheet.

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sack1

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Aug 02

Posts: 171

sack1 says:

"Space was the biggest issue and there are some incredibly tight clearances between fairing panels and the frame and engine; some as low as 3mm.

If you look at a Honda all of the clearance will be around 20mm but that’s why a Honda looks like it does and an MV looks different.”
 

That's great, but some of those clearences really don't have much to do with the ride you experience going down the road. It's great to close up gaps between panels but it also makes the bike harder to design and manufacture, just as the article points out. If you're willing to part with the money and those gaps mean something to you then step up to the bar and place your order.

 

 

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fmaxwell

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Dec 07

Posts: 7

fmaxwell says:

Yes, it does matter

sack1 wrote: "That's great, but some of those clearences really don't have much to do with the ride you experience going down the road. It's great to close up gaps between panels but it also makes the bike harder to design and manufacture, just as the article points out. If you're willing to part with the money and those gaps mean something to you then step up to the bar and place your order." Maybe you are not aware of this, but the purpose of the fairing is to reduce aerodynamic drag. Bigger gaps between the fairing panels and the engine means a wider fairing. That means much more aerodynamic drag. That translates into more power being used to overcome drag, slower acceleration, and a lower top speed. Supersport bikes are not for "going down the road." They are designed to win races so that street-riding racer-wannabes will buy them. If you were designing a sport bike to work well on the road, you would not have pegs and bars that had guys riding at 65mph crouched over like they were trying to hit 165mph on the straight at Daytona. You would not have windshields so low that your helmet had to be within an inch of the tank to get your head out of the wind. You would not have fairings so narrow the wind whipped against your legs. You would not limit the displacement to conform to a racing class (in which the street rider will never compete). If you were designing a sport bike for the street rider, you would have is a motor with larger displacement and a long stroke (probably a V-twin). It would have a much wider power band and be less peaky. The riding position would be more upright, giving the rider better control, better visibility, and less fatigue. The fairing and windshield would be wider and designed to envelop the rider in a quiet zone with minimal wind buffeting. In other words, you'd design something like a Buell 1125R. And then the street squids would refuse to buy it.

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boybilly1967

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Dec 08

Posts: 1275

boybilly1967 says:

Did Harley Davidson make a big error of judgement by getting rid of MV?

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Piglet2010

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Oct 11

Posts: 2062

Piglet2010 says:

Road Sport

@ fmaxwell - There are actually quite a few faired “road sport” bikes that are not intended to meet the “Super Sport” or “Superbike” racing standards: BMW K1300S, Honda CBR600F, VFR800 and VFR1200F, Kawasaki Ninja 650, Ninja 1000 and ZX-14R, Suzuki GSX1250FA and Hayabusa, and Yamaha FZ6R and Fazer 8.

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fmaxwell

Joined:

Dec 07

Posts: 7

fmaxwell says:

Sport vs. Sporty

@pigle2010: The bikes you named are "sporty" bikes rather than sport bikes. Just look at some weights to start with: A Buell 1125R has a dry weight of 375 lbs. GSX1250FA: 567 lbs. K12300S: 503 lbs. VFR1200F: 590 lbs. curb weight. The little 600-800cc bikes are fine to toodle around town on, but they are hardly sport bikes. Even the sportiest of them, the Fazer 8, weighs 473 pounds and has only 3/4 of the torque of the aforementioned Buell 1125R and it has 40 fewer horsepower. Then there's the Buell's aggressive 21-degree of rake, 84mm of trail and stubby 54.6 inch wheelbase. Compare those numbers to the freight train like 62.4 inch wheelbase of the K1300S! The Hayabusa and ZX-14 are big, long, heavy bikes well suited to portly guys who want to accelerate from stop light to stop light, not to riders who want to carve up a mountain road. If the bike doesn't have full suspension adjustments (preload, compression damping, and rebound damping) at both ends, it's not a serious sport bike. Something like the Ninja 650R, with spindly 41mm forks (vs. 47mm on the Buell 1125R) and rear spring preload as the sole suspension adjustment is not a sport bike. You can't expect a 567 pound GSX1250FA, with softly sprung, 43mm conventional forks, and no damping adjustments at either end, and a 58.5 in. wheelbase to behave like a sport bike. The idea of making a sport bike for the street is not to dull-down a sport bike designed for racing. It's to optimize ergonomics, power delivery, suspension, and chassis geometry for street conditions. It's to make a bike that is as light, and corners every bit as nimbly, as the race bike. It's about recognizing that a rider on the street will be carrying way too much weight on their wrists and their abdominal muscles if you have them canted forward as much as a track rider (who is buoyed up by 100+mph headwinds at speed). It's to make it so that when you round a corner and come up on a slow moving vehicle, you don't have to downshift three gears to stay in the power band. P.S. Sorry about the formatting, but this site seems to have issues when used with a Mac. I'm suspicious that the "Return" key on the Mac and the "Enter" key on a PC are spitting out different ASCII (probably Linefeed vs Carriage Return+Linefeed). I tried using a Control-M/Control-J this time to see if that fixes it, but with no preview, it's a crap-shoot.

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sack1

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 171

sack1 says:

In addition..

fmaxwell, try using a different browser. I think I understand your many points, and not to argue, but to restate my point, is that those gaps certainly mean something to some but in the real world of riding on the street their benefit, presumably to aid aerodynamics and perhaps to help shrink the overall package is lost I feel. My brother has an F4 and it's a very nice bike but he hardly rides it because he's found it becoming too uncomfortable to ride very long. He's 56 and the ol' bod and wrists won't take it anymore. It's because of the very aggressive ergos and rather hard seat. So while manufacturing to that level of tolerances is notable I don't believe out on the street that it truly means or provides much other than increased costs, both upfront and at service time.

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sack1

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 171

sack1 says:

In addition..

fmaxwell, try using a different browser. I think I understand your many points, and not to argue, but to restate my point, is that those gaps certainly mean something to some but in the real world of riding on the street their benefit, presumably to aid aerodynamics and perhaps to help shrink the overall package is lost I feel. My brother has an F4 and it's a very nice bike but he hardly rides it because he's found it becoming too uncomfortable to ride very long. He's 56 and the ol' bod and wrists won't take it anymore. It's because of the very aggressive ergos and rather hard seat. So while manufacturing to that level of tolerances is notable I don't believe out on the street that it truly means or provides much other than increased costs, both upfront and at service time.

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dev_d7

Joined:

Feb 08

Posts: 194

dev_d7 says:

Beautiful

1) Looks: It has to be classed as one of the top looking bikes ever - with the 916 and obviously original Agusta. 2) Equipment: All those electronics are great... I just hope that it is not going to sacrifice reliability and servicing costs. It is more stuff to go wrong!! 3) Such a small team is incredible, but it must have some good advantages in that everyone knows the total development goal(s), rather than building only 1 or 2 small bits like the bigger guys might do.

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