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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi deflated after Sepang test

Valentino Rossi struggled to hide his disappointment after he slipped to a bitterly disappointing 10th place on the timesheets at the conclusion of the second Sepang MotoGP test in Malaysia today. The Italian ended the rain-hit three-day test with a best time of 2.01.550 that left him 1.077s adrift of red-hot 2012 title favourite Casey Stoner. Although Rossi reduced the gap between...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (01 March 2012 16:35)

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noshow

Joined:

Oct 10

Posts: 552

noshow says:

Of course Rossi hasn't lost his talent overnight the last time he won a race was Malaysia 2010 and his last title was 2009 my maths works that out to a lot longer than overnight

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racingfan99

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Oct 10

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racingfan99 says:

Rossi wanted to move to Bridgestones when it had become obvious that Michelin had taken their eye off the ball and stopped working hard. The Bridgestones had a huge advantage at the time and the Michelin shod bikes had become disastrous. But I have long said the one tyre rule should go and open the game up again to any manufacturer who could produce a decent, safe and competitive tyre – progress is always better with competition and motogp needs it. Tyres as well as manufacturers are in short supply at the moment which is never good and Dorna are playing their part in not looking after the sport with poor management.
As far as the Rossi/ Ducati debate goes. I reckon VR and JB have tried and can’t be accused of not putting the effort in with the team. They know their way around bikes and have more knowledge than any of us. Sadly the Ducati GP bike is fundamentally flawed in its design and as each year goes by the evidence of this just keeps building up. They need to scrap the bike and start from scratch. They ignored every great rider who jumped on the Duke and had a nightmare. The success of the exceptional Casey Stoner was the one and only exception and even someone as good as him he only managed 3 wins in his last season , when he clearly could have had a couple more championships by now had he been on a better bike. Casey goes from 3 wins to 10 when he jumps on a Honda and Vale jumps on a Ducati and doesn’t get a win – it’s no coincindence!
Casey didn’t just become brilliant and Vale didn’t just become crap last year – the bikes play their part as well as the tyres. I hope the bike can improve (looks better in black too I reckon!) but if I were Rossi now I think at this stage of his career with maybe only a couple more years being at the top of his game I’d jump from Ducatis sinking ship, there very little prospect of the bike coming good any time soon and time is now a factor for Vale. He should offer to ride for Gresini for free and get on a bike that is capable of winning races, he’s not skint and his reputation is more important at this stage.
 

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Bultoboy

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Bultoboy says:

99 - Think again

They need to scrap the bike and start from scratch.

Surely, this is what they have done?

They ignored every great rider who jumped on the Duke and had a nightmare.

True, until now and this year they have given Rossi and Burgess what they asked for, a new bike with aluminium perimiter frame.

So, have they built the same flaws into the design of the new bike, judging by what's being reported in this story (although it contradicts what was reported from Sepang 1) or do they start looking at other possibilities, such as their riders?

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buelligan272

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buelligan272 says:

new riders?

Are you serious Bultoboy? Do you not think it is fairly obvious that as there has only been one rider able to ride the Ducati anywhere near its best potential that it is highly unlikely that Ducati are going to risk taking on a new rider in the remote chance he can do the same as Stoner!Also what rider is going to want to go to Ducati right now?
The problem is with the bike.Every rider including Stoner has complained about the same things and up till now nobody has been able to fix the problem.
Ducati are now closer than they were with the old bike and already some seem to be writing their chances off!
Maybe they wont make the bike into a winner but you cant fault their enthusiasm and effort so lets just give them a little more time as they have a mammoth task on their hands.


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Bultoboy

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Bultoboy says:

New rider/s

I mean that maybe it would benefit to put someone else on it too.

If the GP0 and 12 are radically different, it makes no sense to me to have Barbera, or Abraham, running on the 'obsolete' GP0 when they could also be on the GP12 offering further feedback from another rider's perspective. More is better in this context surely, particularly given the lack of progress so far? (Rossi's own words above) However, as I have no idea what the differences are between the 0 and 12, maybe anything fed back from the GP0 may be of use on the 12 - but I wouldn't have thought it.

As for Stoner being the only one to be able to ride a Ducati, yes, that is obviously true up to the GP11. Now it is a completely new bike, Stoner has never ridden it and it has the same chassis design as the rest, therefore that situation no longer prevails (except maybe in Rossi's mind) The GP12 is no longer a 'Ducati' in the traditional sense and has been developed so we are told, by the best development team in the business to be a bike anyone can ride. So, why would any other rider now shy away from it...

As far as where they are in relation to last year, it is difficult to tell. Two test sessions and two opposing views from Rossi with Sepang 2 virtually negating the view from Sepang 1 and sounding like last year all over again. Too much has changed too quickly, breaking the golden rule of development, one thing at a time, otherwise you have no constant upon which to evaluate results. It is hard to know if the new improved front end feel of the GP12 is down to the chassis or the new tyres. It would be interesting to know how it performed on last year's tyres as that would be a truer indication (I'd be surprised if Ducati haven't tried it) Having said that, ultimately it is about how the bike goes on this year's tyres but how can you know which has yielded the benefit - new chassis or tyres?

Finally, you do realise what you've said here don't you?

Do you not think it is fairly obvious that as there has only been one rider able to ride the Ducati anywhere near its best potential

You're actually admitting that Rossi got nowhere near the results that the GP11 was capable of?

I'm going for a lie down...

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Hedgehog5

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Aug 02

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Hedgehog5 says:

Bulto...

"You're actually admitting that Rossi got nowhere near the results that the GP11 was capable of?"

... Rossi admitted it a while ago... he said he couldn't ride it like Stoner could... some fans actually listen to him rather than continually trying to prove that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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buelligan272

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buelligan272 says:

maybe

It would benefit them to put someone else on it but I doubt it very much!
Of course you are right that it is a brand new bike which is exactly what was needed because the old one was flawed and was never going to do Ducati any good in any riders hands.(even Stoners latterly)
Maybe they are or maybe they are not the best development team but I defy you to tell me anyone else you think could do better?
The reason no rider would want the current Ducati is fairly obvious really.It is a brand new bike with little or no development and if and when the bike becomes competitive I am sure riders will be queuing up to ride for Ducati.
Regarding Rossi not getting the results last year I have never denied that he could not do what Stoner did on the bike but there is certainly no shame in that as no other rider has been able to ride the bike either.
All admiration to Stoner for what he did with that bike but it was a very unusual combination of flawed machine and rider gelling and I cant think of a similar situation in the past and I doubt it will ever happen again.
Lets just hope the Ducati becomes competitive for the sake of Moto GP.
I often wonder how different things would read if it was another rider other than Rossi on the bike!


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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3328

Bultoboy says:

Lets just hope the Ducati becomes competitive for the sake of Moto GP.

Don't disagree with that, no matter who is on it

I often wonder how different things would read if it was another rider other than Rossi on the bike!

Probably not too different if still Stoner, as you'd just have the Rossi fanatics (ie: fanatics, not normal fans) laughing and berating Stoner for his 'continued failure to develop a bike'. Wosi would have hyper-ventilated his way to heart failure in is anxiety to rub it in on here...  As I've mentioned before, Rossi has done himself no favours with neutrals in the past due to his attitude towards fellow competitors, falling out with just about everyone on the grid and displaying a superior and condescending attitude. It came to a head with the comments about Stoner/Ducati which backfired badly. For some it's warranted payback but obviously there are others that take it too far and some purile drivel is written.

I still wonder about the 'flawed' design label on the CF Ducati. Was it the chassis or just the tyres. Is a bike design flawed if it can't work on one specific set of tyres. The Suzuki didn't fair much better with many front end losses but as it wasn't Stoner or Rossi on it no-one really cared. Like I said before, put the 2011 tyres on the GP12 and I wonder what would happen. Similarly, put the 2012 on the GP11 and what would happen?

I've no idea why one bike can put heat into a front tyre quicker and easier than another. When you hit the brakes from 160mph upwards, load the tyre and make it move, why does it react differently on one bike to the next? One of life's mysteries for me and it seems, a good number of race engineers too...

At the moment, Ducati are all at sea and from our position looking in, it's hard to see if this new bike is any better than the old one.

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BarkerBill

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Feb 12

Posts: 178

BarkerBill says:

Rossi and Ducati  --  blah, blah, blah.

Experts among you, hold your theories until the first race, then you'll know the real state of the game, not some Welsh fairy tale and further, I suspect some number of forum contributors, may, on occasion, be under the influence.

 

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racingfan99

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Oct 10

Posts: 412

racingfan99 says:

To Bulto
I don’t need to ‘think again’ thanks mate, I just have different thoughts to you. Just giving my opinion and not trying to make you change yours. Simples!!
 

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