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Anonymous

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Liam Marsden  says:

Qatar MotoGP: Lorenzo victorious at season opener

Factory Yamaha rider Jorge Lorenzo has won the opening race of the 2012 MotoGP championship at the floodlit Losail circuit in Qatar. Lorenzo took to the front of the pack on the first lap, but reigning champion Casey Stoner took to the lead on the third lap where he stayed until the final corner on lap 19. Stoner had opened up...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (08 April 2012 21:14)

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Zoggthefantastic

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Sep 11

Posts: 305

Not sure that i agree bulto

There's nothing in the rule book about not telling the whole truth to the press. I don't think that deceit implies an intent to cheat. Just a desire for the opposition not to know what the problem is, but being placed in a situation where you have to say something. I don't think it counts as a mindgame either, that does imply a deliberate attempt to undermine someone's confidence. For instance if stoner had come out of QP and said,' hmm i'm not sure if my fitness is there, i tried to keep a lid on the laptimes so I had something up my sleeve for raceday, but lorenzo just pipped it' That might have been the truth but it wouldn't have been sensible to say so. Lorenzo might have played a different game, put stoner under more pressure made him defend earlier and tired him out sooner. Or if he'd come out and said something like 'lorenzo keeps copying my lines and my braking points i'd expect more from a world champ' that would be a load of old bollox designed to make a story in the press and get under his skin, that would be a mindgame.

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Zoggthefantastic

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Sep 11

Posts: 305

And as to the other

Riding around a problem isn't so much subjective as contextual. When the ducati had a good power advantage over the other bikes, stoner was able to ride around the bike's weaknesses. [nb. This is not me saying he only won the championship because the ducati had a power advantage-he had to use the strengths to counter the weaknesses, true world campionship material] Once the other manufacturers caught up stoner became less competitive, i.e. he couldn't ride around the problem enough. So, despite wins, he was slipping slowly down the championship standings. Do you see what I'm driving at? Anyone can ride around any problem the question is can they do it and still be competitive? the answer is it depends how close the competition are. If they are within a nat's bollock then they can't. It's just impossible.

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Hedgehog5

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Aug 02

Posts: 2319

Hedgehog5 says:

ratcheman...

"What an outstanding performance by Lorenzo... Even when Stoner got three seconds in front..."

I know you're trying to big-up JL but Stoner was never 3 secs ahead... try 2.1.

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3332

Bultoboy says:

ok Zog

On the first point of being deceiptful, from the way I read your original comment to what you're saying now, I don't disagree with you. I think we just have a different interpretation on deceipt, that's all. Competitors in any sport throwing the odd smokescreen isn't unusual and all part of the game. Just that whether Stoner was doing it we'll probably have to agree to differ about as I don't believe he bothers with that stuff - but I take your point.

On the second issue, I believe that Stoner is more able to ride around a problem better than others due to his willingness to take a bike by the scruff of the neck and wring it, a bit like Mansell used to drag an under-performing F1 car around. It's only based on the way I see him ride a bike and the only direct comparison is what he was able to do with a Ducati that no-one else could. He seems to be able to adapt quicker. He won first time out on it after spending a year on a Honda and people were in raptures when Rossi did that on the Yamaha.

I understand what you are getting at, but being able to ride around a problem can't be directly measured against how competitive you are against other riders on other bikes, only someone on the same bike with the same 'faults' or 'traits'. If Rossi hadn't gone to Ducati and flopped so badly, no-one would really have accepted just how much Stoner put into getting the results he did on it. Ironic really, that Rossi has done Stoner a massive favour in that respect...

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Hedgehog5

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Aug 02

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Hedgehog5 says:

Zogg...

"Once the other manufacturers caught up stoner became less competitive"

That's pretty obvious... he had a bike that no longer had an advantage but retained all of it's disadvantages.

"Anyone can ride around any problem the question is can they do it and still be competitive?"

... & he kept it competitive... you said "despite wins" as though you're dismissing them... try adding "despite podiums"... lots of them & they make points too. He was still embarrassing the Japanese manufacturers on a regular basis. Every podium meant he was stealing points off at least 2 top factory bikes... or 3...or 4. At most he was 20 points behind the top Honda... were they also uncompetitive despite wins & podiums? Apart from the Donington debacle his lowest race finish was 5th on the CF bike... the crashing needed to be sorted... Ducati thought that Stoner was the weak link & Rossi was their answer.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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viaciofano

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Nov 04

Posts: 69

viaciofano says:

I think Rossi body language said it all when he jumped off the bike in the pits and seemed to be pissed off sitting down and not talking. also checking the cameras were not looking at him...it was a interesting first race for me. I also thought Hayden showed his true grit by handling the beast....

vinnychoff

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Zoggthefantastic

Joined:

Sep 11

Posts: 305

Exactly hedgy

That's my point, it is obvious, that's why the 'ride around problems' statement is a silly one.

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Zoggthefantastic

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Sep 11

Posts: 305

Anyway

This old chestnut is getting decidedly stale. Would Anyone else put money on Bradl for a podium this season?

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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jonnyscore1

Joined:

May 10

Posts: 26

jonnyscore1 says:

great race.

why hasnt rossi changed teams to give himself a fighting chance. if the bike isnt right why stay on it and be an also ran.

would messi play football for burnley? no, because he wants to win things and he can command big money.

if he doesnt change teams soon no one else will want him and it would be a shame to see his career slide away.

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vmax4steve

Joined:

Mar 08

Posts: 312

vmax4steve says:

This football analogy

you have used, could be said that Rossi indeed went to AC Milan who paid very big money for him and he has failed to score.

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