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JustBe

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 269

JustBe says:

What can stop oil from getting to the camshaft?

I've put the cylinder head back on and did the timings and started the bike and it seemed fine but really loud. So I wheeled it to the garage and they said it sounds like no oil in the camshaft, I took the head cover off and it's bone dry. Sadly the oil I drained out had some metal shavings but it doesn't look too badly damaged. 


I was just wondering what can cause the problem of no oil getting to the Camshaft? Are you meant to put oil in there before you put the head cover on? All I did was put it in like normal.

The bike hasn't been used for so long, it hasn't gone faulty through use so just wonder what the problem could be?

Thanx.

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  • Posted 3 years ago (30 April 2012 20:11)

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albert88

Joined:

Jan 10

Posts: 1712

albert88 says:

oil

you sure the head gasket the correct one ? or on the right way not blocking oil ways?

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JustBe

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 269

JustBe says:

hmmm

I have to say it has to be something that causes the whole camshaft to be bone dry and not just one section. 


The head gasket is the one for my bike but I guess I'll have to take the head off to check there is no block, didn't realise the oil comes through the actual metal, thought it was fed through via pipes.

It's a GPZ 500S.

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MakemRider

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 244

MakemRider says:

No oil on camshaft.

Not knowing too much about bike design I draw my knowledge of engines from my time as a motor mechanic.

Ideally you would rebuild putting some oil there as you go just to give a bit lub. prior to the oil being circulated.

It should only take a couple of seconds for the oil to circulate so if still bone dry then there could be a blockage. The shavings you see may be the camshaft bearings breaking up through lack of oil.

The oil channels are quite fine so it wouldn't take much muck (old gastet etc.) to block one or more.

Are the gaskets you fitted the correct ones?

Are they on the right way up/round?

It could be that the gasket (sort of) fits more than one way, it may appear at first glance to be right but the oil channel holes may only line up in one position.

If it's not a genuine manufactures gasket or from a v-similar model engine the oil channel holes may be in the wrong position.

These are just suggestions. I remember once when I was a mechanic one of the other mechanics rebuilt an wagons engine & fitted the gasket supplied by the main dealer. Turned out that when the gaskets were delivered the storeman mixed up the petrol & diesel engines head gasket (everything was identical except that the petrol engine gasket cyclinder diameter was 1 or 2 mm smaller & the pistons of the diesel engine hit it as soon as the engine turned over).

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JustBe

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 269

JustBe says:

hmm

Is there any way to turn the bike on without doing any damage to anything to see if I can run any possible blockage out.


I used a brand new gasket for the cylinder head

http://www.gpzzone.co.uk/acatalog/11004-1159.jpg

But then I used this picture to know which way to put it.

http://www.cyclepedia.com/manuals/CPP-139/Content/Resources/Images/ninja500_676.jpg


I reused the rubber gasket for the head cover but put some of that blue engine gasket stuff on it which says it wont cause blockages as it dissolves.

The gasket is quite symmetrical and can only face one way so it wouldn't matter which way up it goes, so I couldn't have put that on wrong I don't thing, especially following that picture.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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MakemRider

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 244

MakemRider says:

It seems

like you have done all the checks necessary to ensure the parts were fitted correctly. Often they will only fit one way but there are occasions where a gasket could 'fit' upside down.

Couldn't see the picture as you need to sign up to do so.

Unlikely that running the engine would clear the blockage as normal oil pressure wouln't be high enough.

Did you put 'gasket seal' on the head tgasket it's self. Normally all you use if necessary (or at all) is a thin smear of light grease.

Did you have to scrape the old gasket off? it is this crud that, if you are not careful, blocks the oil chanels. These would be small holes (3-5 mm at most) in the block & head. The gasket sometimes has a aluminium 'seal' built in to the gasket around the hole.

Unfortunatly the only way to check them is to remove the head & blow out with a high pressure air line.

As I said, the shavings could be the camshaft bearings breaking up so you may need to remove it to check. A blue colour across part of the shell, scratches or missing pieces are signs of a bearing that has ran dry.

Bearings could be 'shells' or 'ball bearing' types, as I say I an not familiar with bikes as yet.

If the engine has ran for more than 10 seconds I'd expect oil to have been pumped up to the area. Depending on how long it ran for damage may be minor or major, it's hard to guess.

Anything that is normally oiled in use should be oiled on assembley with the relavant oil. Other parts (ie piston, upper cylinder etc.) wiped with an oily rag.

Other than what I have offered I can't suggest anything further to check. Prehaps someone with more speciffic bike knowledge could expand/correct anything I have said.

Remember, I was a car mechanic & while they are basically the same there are differences I am unaware of.

Hope I have been of some help.

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JustBe

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 269

JustBe says:

hmm

I'm going to inspect it more in the morning but it ran for a long time, I didn't notice any problems because it didn't sound bad until I started hearing a clutter. I cannot see much damage in the Camshaft though, I dunno what you call the parts on the shaft but they hit the rocker arm? They look badly worn and at this point putting lots of money into a bike that cost me £600, just isn't worth it.

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kcmc

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 7737

kcmc says:

:

OH DEAR:upset:

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AdieR

Joined:

Apr 08

Posts: 3042

AdieR says:

Is your

oil filter clean?
Is your oil pump working and is the pick-up pipes clear?

What age / mileage is the bike?

Not familiar with your bike, but head gaskets sometimes have orientation marks ("top", "up" etc). Again, not familiar with your machine, but mine has an oil "nozzle" in the head which needs blown out with air.

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MakemRider

Joined:

Jul 11

Posts: 244

MakemRider says:

The bits that hit the rockers

are called the cams (hence the name camshaft). If they are badly worn the valves won't open and/or close at the correct time & won't open far enough. The engine wouldn't have the power it should & may not even start.

What do you call a long time?

You may need to have the camshaft & rockets professionally checked.

IMHO an engine rebuild is best left to the professional if you are unsure of what you are doing.

KCMC sums it up nicely when he says OH DEAR.

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JustBe

Joined:

May 09

Posts: 269

JustBe says:

hmm

Problem is any garage wanted to charge more than the bike is worth so I thought I'd do it myself. Everything I done is perfect, I checked and followed guides step by step. The only problem is there must be an oil blockage somewhere, I doubt it's the oil pump as it was working fine a year and a half ago and it's just been sitting around since.


Shame but the cams look too worn and too expensive to change so I'll just put it on ebay for scrap. 

Thanx.


Edit: I hear the oil filter cannot be the cause because they have a safety feature to where if blocked it'll just bypass it and carry on pumping unfiltered oil.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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