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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Cal Crutchlow: Stoner is in another league

British rider Cal Crutchlow believes it will be tough for Jorge Lorenzo and Dani Pedrosa to wrestle the MotoGP title away from Casey Stoner in 2012 based on the reigning world champion's recent victories in Jerez and Estoril. The Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Team rider reckons the Aussie is ‘in another league at the minute’ after Stoner triumphed with a brilliant...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (08 May 2012 09:57)

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doohanfan

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Jan 12

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doohanfan says:

yes hugelean

The best rider getting on the best bike has always been part of the sport, although this whilst apparently allowing stoner's titles to be discounted does not detract from the brilliance of any of valentino's titles. "Everyone knows" is the last defence of the desperate, particularly since it was similarly applied to the 2007 ducati among many other obvious facts such as that bike's electronics allowing it to ride itself.

There is still the small matter of rossi, with fitness good enough to allow him to win a recent race against lorenzo on a yamaha and pedrosa on a honda (an achievement from which in itself I would not seek to detract btw) not being able to get the 2010 ducati within 2 seconds of stoner's  pace in the week-end 2 days gone which culminated in a second in the race, at the same time as stoner was riding the honda  faster than the guy who had been the honda factory rider for 4 years. 

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

bennyhedgehog

The decison to go for raw power was made before stoner's advent, and perhaps still hasn't been entirely repealed, again it would seem likely independent of stoner.

I will accept stoner's 4th in 2009 as being due to his poor development of the bike if you are happy to ascribe rossi's 3rd in 2010 following 2 championship wins in 2008 and 2009 to the same cause.

The 2010 bike was not developed by stoner, or for him for that matter by ducati's own account,  resulting in the random front end loses that neither he nor rossi after him could deal with, and which even the great valentino and jb could not resolve.

I would be interested in your list of manufacturers other than ducati who have finished ahead of honda and yamaha since ducati entered the premier class. And I thought the 2003 yamaha beaten by ducati was the worst bike in history miraculously transformed by valentino in 2004. 



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TetsuoSama

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Sep 11

Posts: 546

TetsuoSama says:

They wish ...

But your statements are more than a little orange tinted for you to see things clearly.

Which statements exactly (or can I assume that you're coolly talking out of your arse again)?

Ducati are still trying to recover from the damage of the 'Stoner years'.

Yeah, those celebrations must have done some damage.  If the Rossi years don't put them out of MotoGP all together, they may one day get back to the heady heights of the Stoner years.

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weskit

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weskit says:

just when the moronometer was starting to head lower

Along comes BennyHedgeHog to redline it.

You really think suggesting Stoner is responsible for Ducati's current situation is cool and impartial? Rossi himself points out that riders give feedback but ultimately its the engineers that develop the bikes. Ducati shot themselves in the foot, and should be extremely grateful for the 1 championship, 23 wins and whatever podiums they were gifted.

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Yamaha3358

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Yamaha3358 says:

Hugelean. 9th in the Championship. Not even top Ducati...

Close the door on your way out.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

benny

I more or less agree with your second post.

Ducati took a gamble on an extreme bike in 2007, and lucked into a rider that could ride it, as did stoner in landing on a bike perhaps uniquely suited to him. The problem was that ducati decided it was genius on their part (not entirely incorrectly, an operation like ducati beating honda and yamaha is not to be sneered at), and underestimated stoner's contribution. Their strategy as you say was possibly not a good long term one, and whether or not stoner can develop a bike that bike with that design could not be otherwise developed with or without rossi as ducati proceeded to prove in 2010 and 2011.  You could also ask marco melandri about that well proven trellis frame design, and tyre changes during the years under discussion were possibly also influential. 5 of stoner's 6 wins in 2008 were after returning to the 2007 engine btw, of what relevance to our discussion I am not entirely sure, and while he had 4 dns races  he had zero race dnfs in 2009.

If rossi can make ducati competitive with honda and yamaha with a conventional design it will be an amazing achievement particularly if sustainable without him, which might be a problem just as with stoner and the previous design.

 I do think 3 or 4 wins a year on a bike perceived to be difficult but exotic was a sustainable position for them giving them considerable cachet in view of the resources of their competitors, midfield with a conventional design particularly with valentino riding it is not. 


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weskit

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Jun 10

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weskit says:

hi benny

No, the "fact" you're presenting is that Ducati performed worse in 2011 after Stoner left than they did in 2006 before Stoner arrived. Attempting to attribute the decline to Stoner is speculative. What you should be enganging in is "counterfactuals". Where do you think Ducati would be now if they'd never hired Stoner? Still struggling to find a winning formula is my guess, but without having had any success in the meantime. If they hadn't gone the way of Suzuki and Kawasaki that is.

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simoncbr1000rr

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Apr 12

Posts: 586

ducati

audi will pull the the plug if they don`t start winning....and u won`t see anyone being paid 10 squillion quid to ride it again either

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Zoggthefantastic

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Sep 11

Posts: 305

audi will pull the plug?

Audi will do whatever it takes to keep high-end, exotic motorcycles selling.  


In their own words "It has great expertise in high-performance engines and lightweight construction, and is one of the world's most profitable motorcycle manufacturers. That makes Ducati an excellent fit for Audi." 

I'd expect a reworked carbon/frameless design that gives the panigale the pedigree it deserves before I would expect the plug being pulled. With audi research dollars maybe the preziso pig will fly after all.

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BMEP

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Jul 08

Posts: 176

BMEP says:

Norton

Just thought I'd let you know - The new Norton goes well and sounds good too.

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