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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi rubbishes retirement talk

Valentino Rossi has moved quickly to dismiss reports claiming the Italian star was going to retire at the end of 2012. A report in today’s Daily Telegraph claimed Rossi would retire at the end of his second season with Ducati, or even quit before the end of the campaign because of his failure to make the Desmosedici a competitive force in...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (09 May 2012 10:49)

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Firebird3

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Nov 11

Posts: 817

Firebird3 says:

Bob

'Hayden saying whatever  to prolong his career'. You're a mind reader as well. There is no end to your talent.

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3468

Bultoboy says:

Tyres 2

Benny, I have to try and edge you away from your fixation with Preziosi and his design skills before it becomes an obsession and destroys you... or you go out there to deal with him personally

Checa did say that the bikes are designed around the tyres (apart from this year when Bridgestone decided to introduce some new ones after the bikes were designed... nice) But after he tested the GP12, if I remember rightly, he also said that Ducati's problems were caused by the tyres, not the chassis, as they had changed it X number of times with no difference in performance.

Why one bike generates heat into a tyre and another doesn't is beyond me, given the speed they all ride them at and torture they put them through. The two things that make me think there is some credence in the tyre theory is the 2009 CF bike and this year's GP12. Stoner was the only rider to ride both the GP8 and GP9 (as far as I know) and as soon as he tested the GP9 he apparently wanted it, as he felt it was a better bike than the GP8. This was sometime during 2008 so it would have been ridden on the 2008 tyres. When 2009 came around and they were on the 2009 control tyre he hit the problems they never had in testing and the only non constant were the tyres.

2012, as soon as Hayden uses the new tyre he is qualifying on the front row in Jerez and in Portugal, Rossi is finding that he once again has feel and can brake later and turn in better. OK his overall result was nothing to get heady about but the bike seemed better for him with no changes other than set up and the tyre. No mention of the chassis itself being a problem, which Rossi has said feels no different from the previous bike, just the engine putting out too much power.

So, tyres or design. Probably somewhere between the two. It will be interesting to see how the next few races develop where the bike won't have new parts but they will have a bit more experience with the new tyre and a bit of data from the new set up to work with. Will it see them noving closer to the front?
 

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BMEP

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Jul 08

Posts: 184

BMEP says:

Well done Bultoboy - Tyres

Nice to see you've got the 'secret' tyre saga sussed. Looks like its gone straight over everyone’s head. You just need to bolt on to the front of what you've written – Before Ducati started to go fast with the 990 they were held back by not having the best Michelins and were not allowed to have the best Michieins, they went to other riders. Bridgestone were wandering around at the back of the grid supporting just one team (I think) but there was a plan. Bridgestone stole a top tyre man (can't remember his name) and contrived to use him to develop 'the best' tyres in 990s. At the very same time Ducati could take no more nonsense from Michelin and decided to use the worst tyres on the grid instead – Bridgestone. But on the promise of a big turn around in performance Ducati and Bridgestone joined forces. Soon Loris was a front runner on the new 'miracle' tyres and barring 'the big crash' more than likely would have won the the championship. The change to 800s was a completely different Ducati (small bike, harsh power band, nasty) and not many could get on with it. Bridgestone wanted the other top riders (and later all riders) to use their products so their tyres had to evolve away from the Ducati to be more suitable for other riders and so it got worse and worse etc.

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Zoggthefantastic

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Sep 11

Posts: 305

I seem to remember

The moaning was pretty constant too. Fnar fnar

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simoncbr1000rr

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Apr 12

Posts: 586

not really

it was funny as fuk.....i think rossi was great......i think stoner will prove to be better.......that doesn`t stop me from thinking rossi was still great......what u have sunshine is called the dimbo football mentality......my teams great all others are crap......i`ll tell u what i would love to see rossi get on a the same bike as stoner next year and watch them race wheel to wheel.....but i can also accept the fact that the chances are stoner would blitz him.....u see i think they are both legends.....rossi of the past and stoner of the present and future

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simoncbr1000rr

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Apr 12

Posts: 586

u know who i feel sorry for?

jorge lorenzo

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3468

Bultoboy says:

Tyres 3

Benny - don't get your point. The engine was the same from 2007 to 2011, different spec like big-bang or screamer, but same config of L4. The contention is that the tyres got progressively worse for Ducati with the one tyre for all rule. Stoner had the L4 in 2007 and no crashes. Two crashes in 2008, cause? - who knows. But during 2008, he tests the CF GP9 with no issues. 2009, the GP9 with the new tyres has front end issues.

Still not convinced the L4 is the cause of the issues, or even the CF frame. It would have been interesting to see how things would have panned out if the single tyre rule hadn't come in and tyres could have been developed for individual makes of bike, but we'll never know. Even Burgess doesn't think the L configuration is a problem and has even said that most designers would pick it as the optimum configuration (which begs the question why they haven't...)

All supposition obviously but we'll see what happens with Rossi and Hayden in the nest few races now they have the new tyre and a base setting to work with. No new parts until July. New engine and new frame? But I don't think it is a new engine configuration, just a different state of tune from the current one. You may have to wait for your tighter V config.

If it doesn't come, I have a picture in my mind. A grassy knoll outside the factory at Bologna, a dark shadowy figure of a Welshman, scurrying away through the undergrowth carrying a sniper's rifle with smoking muzzle and a wheelchair bound Italian slumped in his chair with a hole the size of a whore's gash in the back of his head.

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Zoggthefantastic

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Posts: 305

Bulto

You're getting very tyresome...

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doohanfan

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Jan 12

Posts: 1826

doohanfan says:

leemuz

I have another statistic for you,  honda 15 championships  (12 without rossi), yamaha 15 (11 without rossi), ducati 1 (0 without stoner) .

Rossi and stoner are both great riders, rossi is likely to be regarded as the greater by history, for the same reason he is regarded as greater than most if not all of his predecessors, longevity at the pinnacle of the sport as your statistics show, and staying at the top for as long as rossi did is truly remarkable as mick doohan said last year.

However if you are going to compare anything surely it has to be head to head records, even though this can be invalidated by equipment  differences and the peaks of the riders not coinciding.

Comparing stoner on an lcr honda and a ducati against rossi on a factory honda or yamaha when stoner was not racing is comparing apples with turnips.

 If you want to compare them on factory hondas or yamahas, stoner's 1 year and 3 races so far look fairly rossi-like.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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Yamaha3358

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 1386

Yamaha3358 says:

Doohanfan, don't be silly mate. Its the rules of bananas. Any Rossi v Stoner comparison must be/or include a time of when Stoner was at a clear disadvantage in terms of machinery. Head to head records are clearly invalid because.. Well because Rossi doesn't come out on top. Simple. Sounds fair I suppose... 'Compare his first six with my first six' ... How desperate do you want to sound?

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