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Hackey

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 89

Hackey says:

Possible white line fine

Was riding with a buddy today on the A23 towards Brighton, and we was in the twisties and it was a double white line section and as I could see the oncoming road for miles and the car in front was slow I overtook on the white lines with my friend behind the car I overtook. He told me that I was riding for some time after and noticed that the car was a unmarked police vehicle with one copper inside, the copper opened the drivers window and took a picture of me riding perfectly legal - can I get a fine for that ? As the picture only shows me riding legal and Normal ?


PLEASE ADVISE!!

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  • Posted 2 years ago (13 May 2012 15:14)

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AdieR

Joined:

Apr 08

Posts: 2987

AdieR says:

Have you

seen the picture? If its one still picture of normal riding, I don't see what it proves.

 Did that "copper" attempt to pull you at any point?

What makes / made your friend think its an unmarked car?

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Hackey

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 89

Hackey says:

Adier

I haven't seen it yet as this was today - but all it would show is me riding as normal.


No attempt at all.- I didnt even notice it until I was told at the petrol garage.

It was defo a unmarked car because as my mate overtook him he saw his radio and badges and that on his person. 

Do you think it's possible to get done for it?


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AdieR

Joined:

Apr 08

Posts: 2987

AdieR says:

To be honest

I'd have thought if it were a problem, he'd have pulled you at the time. One wonders also how he managed to take pictures while driving (or indeed why he was, because that should be a no-no - pictorial evidence is usually collected by video cameras fitted).

Were the white lines solid or broken?


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Hackey

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 89

Hackey says:

Lines

Im not 100% sure but I think they were Solid - Im just more worried about the picture!

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BikerDefenceSolicitors

Joined:

Apr 12

Posts: 14

Sounds odd

I've already replied to this on the General forum, but it also occurs to me that this guy could have been a mini cab!  They have radios and stuff.  Unmarked cars aren't usually dripping in badges even on the inside in my experience.

You can overtake even where there is a white line providing you don't cross the solid white line.

The photo is of no value whatsoever and will simply serve to undermine the police officer's evidence.  He claims you cross a white line so his response is a) doing nothing to stop and ID you; and b) to drive dangerously himself.  It would be a pretty foolish officer who gave that evidence in court.

If they wanted to prosecute they'd have to first ID the driver and then issue a summons for you to attend court.  They'll have a massive evidential problem given that the officer never saw you or ID'd you.  He thus cannot give evidence that you were the driver at the time.  They would have to try to get you to admit to being the rider via a s. 172 notice to ID the rider.  I'm sure that you'd fill that in properly but will they get it done in time?

I must say that from what you've told us I seriously doubt that you will be prosecuted.

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Hackey

Joined:

Mar 11

Posts: 89

Hackey says:

BikerDefenceSolicitors

Thanks for your reply - 


Thats what I thought - It was 100% a copper but its a case of what can he do with the picture - I crossed the white line so you know... 

It was on the 13th and I still haven't received anything but I was speaking to a different lawyer and he said there is a real possibility of him prosecuting  me. 

If they issue a "Confirm the rider" - what happens if I say it was "So and So" because if I say it was me then surely they will issue a NIP afterwards?

Thanks for your help!

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arryace

Joined:

Apr 10

Posts: 197

arryace says:

odd advice

what does the photo prove?

It 'could' be used to remove doubt over who was riding only last year we saw a rider prosecuted from the numerous speed camera photos taken of him despite him covering his number plate.

he was visited at home and his leathers were siezed as eveidence.

there are many reasons why he may not have stopped you at the time and the fact that he didn't in no way undermines the case against you. he witnessed you do it and he will be willing to stand in court under oath and make a statement to that fact.

Since when did taking a photo whilst driving fall under 'Dangerous Driving' that a very odd suggestion from one that appears to be in the legal profesion.

if this proceeds the rider will recieve a S172 and he will have a choice fill it in correctly or pervert the course of justice as he quite clearly states in this thread it was him.

so the the constabulary have the riders details and a statement from a Police Officer describing the the offence.

i would be interested to know why a 'legal expert' would suggest there was no case if he is reported for the offence there is little or no defence he can offer the fact that the officer didn't stop him at the time is irrelavant he wasn't still comiting the offence, the danger had caesed to exsist.

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bbstrikesagain

Joined:

Nov 08

Posts: 842

Presumably he had photograhed your reg

That gave him 14 days to get an s172 to the registered keeper, starting at least 33 days ago from the OP.  If the bike is registered to you at your present address, so you could be sent the s172, and you haven't received it, then the alleged offender cannot be prosecuted unless it was sent registered post and not returned undelivered.


IF he'd stopped you, cautioned you and recorded your response in his pocket book, and your response wasn't a flat denial, then he'd have had have some worthwhile evidence to take to court should you refuse the conditional offer of a fixed penalty.

But he didn't, and had no evidence of the alleged offence, no other witness, no photo, no admission.  I trust you weren't sent an s172?

P.S.
If stopped there are two ways to go about it.  Act as a simple hapless victim, politely and apologetically admit whatever, hoping for leniency - it may work. Or, if it's a single officer's uncorroborated observation, no video, no VASCAR, etc, then act like you have a lawyer prompting you, "No officer, I'm very sorry, you must be mistaken, no part of my vehicle was across the solid white line at any stage / the traffic light was showing GREEN as I continued across the regulation line / etc".   Under PACE your response must be taken down word for word, and is part of the evidence should the officer wish to act on their apparently inaccurate observation.  A fixed penalty could be issued out of spite, but without tangible evidence the case will not hold up in court.  This came from someone who had the other get out of jail free card that worked a few years back - a warrant card.

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