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Discuss This Poll: What puts UK Fireblade buyers off ABS? New bikes

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Anonymous

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MCN  says:

Poll: What puts UK Fireblade buyers off ABS?

Quick question for you: how many new Fireblades were sold in Germany without ABS last year? Answer: none. Every single one bought was the ABS-equipped model. For Britain, 35% of Blades had ABS, in France it was 20% and in Italy and Spain it was just 5%. Setting aside the racial stereotypes for a moment, let's concentrate on the UK, and...

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  • Posted 3 years ago (17 July 2012 12:04)

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philehidiot

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 4777

philehidiot says:

eh?

I must be daft - I can't understand why grippier tyres make ABS kick in faster? As I understand it, you lose grip in a tyre as detected by the wheel speed sensors and the ABS kicks in. So surely you'd lose grip earlier on the shitty tyre and later on the grippier tyre? Help?

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snev

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Jan 11

Posts: 8491

snev says:

ermmmm

yes i'm trying to get my head around that one tbh.

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X2Glider

Joined:

May 10

Posts: 427

X2Glider says:

Grippier tyres

ABS is "pre-programmed" to activate when it senses what is determined to be a rate of wheel deceration that is seemingly impossible.  That's what the sensor ring is for.  It determines how fast the wheel is turning and if it decelerates in a time frame that is too quick according to the pre-programmed entry, the computer thinks the wheel locked up and ABS kicks in.  If the sensor thinks the wheel is still turning, it does nothing.  You have normal braking function.

 

So, if you add grippier tires and brake pads that would normally stop a bike faster, the ABS computer can think you are braking too quickly and ABS kicks in prematurely.  After all, the ABS is programmed for the OEM tires of a certain profile and grip that came with the bike.  Change tires and the ABS program is off from ideal.  This is why an ABS equipped bike with no selectable modes can negate any benefit from stickier tyres and brake pads.

 

ABS does not compare the speeds of 2 wheels and make "on-the-fly" calculations.  ABS on bikes is not a "closed loop" system.  Besides, what if both wheels locked up at the same time?  How would ABS know if you locked up or you were sitting at a traffic light?  It wouldn't know the difference.  And both wheels have different circumferences, widths and profiles, and pressure causes issues so making comparisons is rather pointless.  Add in the fact there's a hundred different option for a given tyre size in the aftermarket.

 

That's why the S1000RR, ZX-10R, 1198, Panigale and Diavel have selectable modes.  To account for normal, wet, race and slick conditions.  Race and slick modes will account for grippier tyres and brake pads and use a suitable  program in the ABS computer.

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SHIVA_

Joined:

May 08

Posts: 228

SHIVA_ says:

ABS is becoming common place

Ride4Fun, I'd buy a Ducati anyday.  They have excellent ABS now.  ABS is becoming common place.  One of the reasons I stuck with BMW in the past was because of their excellent ABS option, but now that it's becoming more common place, I'd be prefectly cool riding other brands, as long as they aren't Japanese nor American.  ;)

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philehidiot

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Feb 09

Posts: 4777

philehidiot says:

X2

makes sense.


Whadd'ya mean y'can't add me bastardin' comment yer bag o'shite?

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snev

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Jan 11

Posts: 8491

snev says:

x2glider

My "sensor Ring" ...does the same.

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X2Glider

Joined:

May 10

Posts: 427

X2Glider says:

Philehidiot

I enjoy a good piss take and sarcasm as much as the next guy.  Without emoticons on this site, hard to tell what's up.  I actually have yet in all the years to type something in to to be mean or derogatory to someone here.  I find that most members on MCN can make themselves look like dickheads without any help from me.  :D

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CobbZ

Joined:

Jun 10

Posts: 49

CobbZ says:

Risk of failure?

I will avoid ABS for as long as possible, because I think if you get used to ABS you will more than likely lose your "braking feel" and skills for hard braking without sliding. Then, once you're used to it, what if the ABS fails? You grab a handful of brake, and collapse in a heap. I'd much rather rely on myself with that in mind.

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SHIVA_

Joined:

May 08

Posts: 228

SHIVA_ says:

Risk of failure? NO

ABS is totally transparent.  You brake as normal for all your riding days.  It only kicks in when you are in an emergency, and in an emergency where every fraction of a second matter, you can't fuss over how much pressure your right hand is applying to the front.  ABS will hide in the background and save your hide only when you need it.

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robsalvv

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3

robsalvv says:

"ABS is totally transparent. You brake as normal for all your riding days. It only kicks in when you are in an emergency, and in an emergency where every fraction of a second matter, you can't fuss over how much pressure your right hand is applying to the front. ABS will hide in the background and save your hide only when you need it."

Oh lord help me. Of course you can fuss over your pressure FFS. ***That's what good braking is about.*** The above is exactly the kind of fear and misinformation that promotes ABS. ABS only kicks in when the computer notes the triggering event. It can't know when it's an emergency. It can't know when the surface ahead looks like it will offer poor traction. The only thing I agree with is that ABS (when working properly) is transparent in normal braking and that it will offer an extra level of assurance against lock up in wet pavement conditions (you could just slow down... ride more cautiously... just a thought). If you're about to lock up a wheel/wheels, ABS will save you from the very probable fall. That is all that ABS can do. All this "Our Father" / "Hail Mary" / "it will save your life" faith stuff that gets overlayed on ABS is a real worry, and it's so beguiling that riders don't even see they are doing it!

Cobbz is right. If you get used to just panic grabbing the brakes and letting the ABS sort it out, then what you're doing is TRAINING your lizard brain to make this the AUTOMATIC response to any survival reaction braking. That is bad. On simple ABS systems, the panic grab leads to a LONGER BRAKING DISTANCE than a what you'd get from a good set up and squeeze. If you ***value*** stopping distance then the key primary skill of braking correctly is still what's required for riding a bike, any bike, even an ABS'd bike.

Those that practice their emergency braking often and regularly (only needs a couple of goes each ride in one of the quiet backstreets on the return journey), are training their automatic lizard brain response when they have to brake hard. It's not pie in the sky. Muscle memory is used routinely by soldiers, musicians, martial arts, surgeons, sports people, gymnasts etc etc etc. It's nothing new.

For the person saying, "Oh but what about my tyres, brake pads and discs!"... seriously?? Sheesh.

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