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Anonymous

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MCN  says:

You ask/you answer: Should I take advanced training?

I passed Direct Access two years ago, and haven't taken any further training since. People keep telling me that pre-test training only teaches you to pass the test, and that I should do ROSPA, IAM, Bikesafe – or anything that'll teach me some advanced riding techniques. Are they right, or is simple experience and riding more miles, more valuable? Your answer could help....

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  • Posted 3 years ago (25 September 2012 17:56)

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snev

Joined:

Jan 11

Posts: 8449

snev says:

But seriously fellas....

What about car driver training, surely this is totally lagging behind ? especially given the latest Government statistics. I'm sure you will all agree that the general standard of driving leaves a lot to be desired?

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exportmanuk

Joined:

Feb 11

Posts: 14

exportmanuk says:

Car Drivers

Many car drivers are sheep Baa. Following the car directly in front focusing only on that, if there isn't a car in from they are either lost, or trying desperately to catch up with on a head which they then latch onto the back bumper and follow at no more than 3ft behind.

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Motorsportsfan

Joined:

Oct 08

Posts: 12

@exportmanuk

Reminds me of my ex-mother-in-law. I recall her calling a biker an idiot for overtaking a line of three cars of which she was the rear most. She became offended when I pointed out that had she and the car in front kept a two second gap the biker could have picked them off one at a time. "Why should I" she asked, because "only a fool breaks the two second rule" came my automatic answer. There was something of an atmosphere for the rest of the journey.

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muddybus

Joined:

Aug 10

Posts: 66

muddybus says:

Oink

You can't educate pork!

How about merging two discussions here? If you pass your car test, just like with the bike, you are limited to a certain CC or BHP for 2 years. Drop the direct access for bikes, and introduce 2 tests for bikes and cars. The first is basic control like the current test. The 2nd test is more like the HGV test, where you have to follow road signs towards a particular destination, avoiding restricted roads etc, and to also include motorway driving/riding. That way, whether you're a car or bike rider/driver, you've had both basic and intermediate tuition and examination. This would surely make driving standards better for all. You could restrict level 1 car drivers to below 1201cc and/or 80 bhp for 2 years. Enough time to get used to driving, and then take the level 2 test if they want to drive something bigger.

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James600zx

Joined:

Sep 07

Posts: 2860

James600zx says:

Rocket surgery?

The oft-quoted new driver in a fast car analogy is inappropriate for two reasons. First, the cost of a fast car (including the insurance) is prohibitive. Second, four wheels are more stable than two so you're less likely to get into trouble. Consequently new drivers' accidents in high powered cars aren't a serious concern, statistically-speaking. Contrast this with bikes where you can get Ferarri-performance on the cheap.

However, back on topic, the roadcraft principles which the advanced riding groups follow weren't found on a tablet up a mountain. A dose of nous and regular road-use won't get you a certficate or a badge but it can be a least equal. If you need additional help the bike mags are full of such tips.

It amazes me that basic training doesn't incorporate road positioning, counter-steering, etc. but advanced training seems to be more focussed on making rapid progress and that worries me.

The one time I might have benefitted from additional training would have been soon after passing my test but then I know I wouldn't have done well at that stage by being pushed to go faster, and that seems to be their core value.

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muddybus

Joined:

Aug 10

Posts: 66

muddybus says:

New driver in fast car

As insurance is usually too high for newly qualified drivers, most are named on their parents policy, allowing them to drive things they're not ready for. This doesn't happen with bikes as they are regarded as being more 'dangerous'.

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sprintst955

Joined:

Jun 09

Posts: 251

sprintst955 says:

no

no.

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Bolfunga

Joined:

Aug 07

Posts: 13

Bolfunga says:

@James600zx

Progress = move forwards; advance; proceed.

I don't believe "rapid progress" is (or has ever been) mentioned anywhere as a pre-requisite of advanced riding. Like so many others, the decision to add or imply the ‘rapid’ aspect is entirely your own.

The principles on which Roadcraft (and other such books) is based have been arrived at through much tried and tested combined wisdom based precisely on a wealth of “nous and regular road-use”. It hasn’t simply been made-up, written down, and published for a laugh by some chap who owned a bike once.

As for using bike mags to get your advanced riding coaching, for sure they publish some useful and insightful information, but where do you think the journos get this information in the first place? Do you honestly think they come up with it themselves whilst covering test miles? C’mon.

Whether you're studying Roadcraft or the advice written in the latest advanced riding series in Bike, understanding and applying any lesson in splendid isolation is infinitely more difficult than having its application explained and demonstrated by another person.

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muddybus

Joined:

Aug 10

Posts: 66

muddybus says:

limp-wristed?

I think the 'twist of the wrist 2' DVD would help 'sporty' riders understand why good riders ride the way they do.

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TNTbikes

Joined:

Sep 12

Posts: 25

TNTbikes says:

you will learn by experience...

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