Motorcycle Forums

K1

Good news is you are not alone mate,

You are learning at the wrong time of the year, but that is also a good thing, if you can learn to ride in the winter on cold and slippery roads you will find dry roads much easier.

You need to break it down to the root cause and understand what causes you to lose confidence what exactly makes the bike lose control.

It can be a number of things;

Your mental state, because you don't have confidence you will be tense and stiff, this will not help with cornering. You must allow the bike to do what it is designed to do, you must try and relax.

So how do you relax?

You must have confidence in what you are doing, a positive attitude. Are the tyres on your bike good, are they cold or warm. Cold tyres are basically crap, they need to be warm and soft to get reasonable grip, so in the winter grip is reduced. The road surface you are riding on is very important, if it is smooth grip is reduced, if it's rough you will get more grip.

The combination between tyre and road surface varies, in theory a smooth surface you get a bigger footprint, more rubber on the road surface which is a good thing, only if tyres are warm and the surface is dry and not greasy, a rough surface is better in the wet, the water soaks away and the tyre grips the rogh edges.

Road camber is another issue, left hand bends generally feel easier than right hand bends, that is because the tyres are pushing into the road surface where as with a right hander the road surface falls away from you are the rear tyre feels like its going to slip away.

So when you are aware of what is going on with all these things, you will improve your confidence and know when you really should back it off a bit.

I have been riding for a few years now, I have done track days, off road riding and I still have the same problem as you, Recently twice I got caught out, losing the front end on a road that I use every day (mostly in a car).

One was when I knew that a section of road was muddy and knew where to back it off, because I passed it on the way to work in the morning, what I didn't know was that during the day a tractor had dumped mud right on the exit of a right hand bend, it was dark I didn't see it and the front slipped away, but saved it.

The other was again in the dark on a right hand bend, again losing the front end middle of the turn. When looked at the same spot in daylight it was a small ripple in the road surface, because it was dark I didn't take the line I usually would and it caught me out.

Both of these moments knocked my confidence, but it is going back and having a look at the cause. The solution? back it off and take it steady in the dark, its not my riding, but the hidden dangers that I can't see that caught me out, a bit slower and at least I know I won't end up in a ditch.

A bit long winded I know but I hope you understand what I am saying.

My advice is if possible find a biker mate / relative to go with you to take you through the parts of roads that you struggle with, look for any clues that can help you get your confidence back. Start off slower and build up speed again gradually.

Take care.

tc

I do agree with your comment..

I was an observer for the IAM and also came across the problem a lot, It is difficult sometimes to get someone to overcome a phobia of cornering.

I know a rider that had fell off on a bend in the wet and was finding it very difficult to corner properly. Take them through it step my step nice and slowly and they still shut the throttle.

 Look well ahead as you say get all the information but they still shut the throttle because they still think they will end up in a ditch.

I cannot speak from experience of getting back on the road after an accident (been very lucky) but I have always kept patient about it, always asked myself I wonder what does this rider feel like when they are approaching bends and what is the simple solution.

I came to the conclusion off road training, basically play around with the bike, braking exercises, slaloms through cones and get them to feel confident with bike under certain conditions.

I am not an icy road fan but did go out in the snow once on a GSXR 750, did about 50 miles and never dropped it, how I never know.

I do actually enjoy riding in the wet, something about it, just different?

I did some experiments a few weeks back riding in the dark, doing all the right things. Information, position, speed and gear, but when you look ahead for the limit point on a right hand bend, you see..... well nothing pitch black, the road, everything just disappears! then the auto panic mode kicks in.

The smell of diesel buggers up my riding completely, no confidence in grip what so ever.

I believe some riders do actually worry about leaning the bike over and they think that the bike will simply just slide away, a natural thing if you don't know anything about the laws of physics, and with the gyroscopic effects of the wheels, at speed the bike will not fall over.

I do agree with you but some riders take a bit more convincing than others.

Tyre temps

Not much of a tyre technician myself but basically road tyres are designed for specific purposes, a sport tyre is suitable for the road and occasional track use having a slightly softer compound. Touring tyres may have a harder compound for better milage and heavier weight.

Generally on a warm dry day you wouldn't need to worry about tyre temps. You wouldn't have to do anything to get tyres upto a reasonable temp, the friction of the road does that as the tyre whizzes around. The heat in tyres makes the tyre more pliable and allows the rubber ooze into the cracks of the road surface giving grip.

With colder weather you still have the road surface creating heat from road surface friction but at the same time you also have a colder road surface  / water and wind chill also cooling the tyre down, resulting with harder rubber , less grip. On a cold day forget about trying to get heat into your tyres, you have to ride with what you have got, back it off, slow down keep it safe and steady.

You have to determine which road surface gives you the best grip and ride accordingly to the circumstances at the particular time. If in doubt back it off (slow down)

Only tyres developed for cold / wet weather use would give you more grip.

Take wet race tyres for example, much better grip in the wet, but if the track dries out the tyre simply overheats and wears away in no time at all, with very poor grip.

The problem with the uk is the varied weather conditions, if you only ride in the summer buy tyres suitable for the summer. If you ride in the winter, cold and wet you may be better with a tyre more suitable for wet conditions, it can be a bit of a compromise.

As for gyroscopic effects of a wheel, have a look at you tube, there are various clips showing examples of a bicycle wheel. If the axle was supported with a piece of string at each end of the axle suspended from something above, you spin the wheel. What happens if you cut one of the strings, you would think the wheel would topple over, it doesn't it stays upright (gyroscopic effect) and in spins around the verticle axis (precession)

Laws of physics is over my head but still interesting stuff.

Also have a look at Keith Codes twist of the wrist, everything you need to know about riding a bike there.

Hope this helps,

Take care.

In the same boat

I used to be very cautious with cornering but am slowly getting better. The thing for me was actually slipping off! Demonstrated exactly what happens if you have sloppy technique. I closed my throttle going round a roundabout - as I wasn't looking up enough - which meant that the weight of the bike shifted more towards the front wheel (which was trying to provide grip for cornering), which in turn meant the front wheel had to provide more grip for braking (as the weight was on it but I wasn't accelerating) than it could offer and it just slipped out, sending the bike spinning away from me.

Slow right handers

I've been riding for nearly 4 years but only started riding in all weathers this year (have racked up over 9k so far this year). Fairweather riding meant that I didn't develop any skills on slippery surfaces so was taking it probably a bit too cautiously in the wet or ice.

Practice helps and now I'm much more confident in all weathers. However I still find myself tensing up on occassion when performing slow right hand turns (say into a side road) when it's wet and icy. I know the problem is I end up looking at the kerb too much after doing the 'lifesaver' which obviously means I'm going to head towards the kerb rather than the direction I'm going.