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aehewitt

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Jan 11

Posts: 8346

aehewitt says:

Right to bear arms... God bless the little ones.

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  • Posted 2 years ago (16 December 2012 13:54)

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Perki6

Joined:

Aug 10

Posts: 124

Perki6 says:

Valko

i must disagree, guns should be banned and rightfully so in the UK. i personal fancy my chances more against someone with a knife more than a gun. The guy who killed all this people was a loner and weird ( according to old class mates ), he probably wouldn't have the connections etc to arm him self with that sort of gun and equipment ( or any gun in the UK ) someone with a knife is highly unlike to go on a killing spree like he did unless hes Rambo are something.

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Diablere

Joined:

Dec 12

Posts: 1437

Diablere says:

Jesus Valko

is arming teachers really the way forward from this? FFS

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entus

Joined:

Sep 11

Posts: 1103

entus says:

Give everyone

in the world a gun. Sooner or later there will be one person left because everyone has shot each other. That one, last person would probably put the gun to their head and pull the trigger because of the senseless waste.
Valko, saying guns can save lives, which is how I interpret your posts,  is like saying it's the nail's fault it gets hit by the hammer. It doesn't add up!
Guns are offensive weapons. You can say as many times as you want that they are for defence but, ultimately, they are a tool of violence at long range.
The U.S seems to breed these sort of people, usually because they don't fit in with the idea that everyone's a winner. These so called 'psychopaths' have usually been taunted, bullied, made to feel like they are worthless in front of their peers and generally laughed at because they didn't live up to society's expectations which they were conditioned into believing at school, so it's no coincidence that they take their twisted revenge out on the very educational establishments that put them in this mental state in the first place. Unfortunately, as we have seen all too many times, innocent people are killed and it is without doubt that the availability of  lethal weapons makes this sort of atrocity easier to perpetrate.
As for armed guards at schools, do you want your kids growing up thinking that's how it has to be?
So, make guns available to all, it makes complete sense doesn't it?
Don't think so!
And god bless america?
There is no god, it's just another excuse for violence but that's another debate.

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SlowLearner

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 1953

SlowLearner says:

aehewitt:

Your figure is a little low.   It's over 100,000 people a year killed in America with guns, representing 30,000+ murders, the rest accidents, suicides, "lawful shootings" and so on.

The craziest thing about all this is that they think WE have a problem because we lack guns here!

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SlowLearner

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 1953

SlowLearner says:

Valco:

Sorry, my old gun-nut, but a comprehensive ban on guns is what happened AFTER Dumblane.    That was a tragedy brought about because our laws were too lax at the time, and guns came into the hands of a lunatic.

Look up the case of Lisa Potts:
Madman attacks school
The lunatic who did that was unable to find a gun, so he attacked the school with a machete.   Spin away, mate - explain how we'd be better off in a country festooned with guns.

And please - stop this NRA crap of "Oh, Oh, the teachers should be armed!"  FFS - you've been watching too many movies.

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entus

Joined:

Sep 11

Posts: 1103

entus says:

Aeh

I don't think you should be apologising to Valko. You have your point of view, he has his. This sort of thing causes outrage and rightly so.
People kill other people, guns are a tool to make the killing easier and from a distance. You don't even need to be able to fight. Any coward or bully can shoot anyone if the coward or bully has a gun!
Yeeehaaaaaaaa!!!!!

Edit
I've just read some of that story about the 'terrorsts' entering the Isreali kibbutz:-

In Gush Etzion, southeast of Jerusalem, two Palestinian gunmen wearing IDF uniforms burst into the Makor Haim yeshiva high school. Wielding guns and knives, they lightly injured two Israeli counselors before being shot dead.

It turned out they had toy guns and were probably sick of people with real guns taking their homes away from them.
SHOT DEAD.
No victims Valko?
Hmmmmm.
No victims!
Outrage is not even a suitable word for this kind of heavy handed retaliation.
Need to stop now before I get quite annoyed.:mad:



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SlowLearner

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 1953

SlowLearner says:

Agreed, entus:

AEH doesn't need to apologise to the gun- nut Valko, and Valko should apologise for pretending he represents the mainstream opinion in America.  America strongly favours much tighter gun regulation, by at least 70% in polls, but that would cut into the gun manufacturers' profits.    So the politicians won't do a thing, they need the big money to stay in office (and if they don't, an opponent will get the money to work against them).  It's all about money in US politics, vastly more than it is here.  Our political money-grubbers are pikers in comparison.

Every occasion when there's a massacre like this (never mind the 30-40 people murdered individually, daily, with guns), that's an occasion when it's not appropriate to talk about guns.

So they leave it for a while, and then the next massacre happens - that, too, is a day when we're not going to talk about gun violence.  It would be inappropriate. 

The NRA is a terrorist organisation,   but if Valko wants to argue this through, and is genuinely convinced (rather than being an NRA stooge of some sort), let's have that discussion.

You up for it, Valko, and agree not to run off with insults?   I'm very confident of being able to win a reasoned argument against your position.  Don't bother running to the NRA/teabaggers websites for ammo, though - I'm very familiar with it all.

*

Let's start with how - exactly, and practically - teachers can sort out problems right away by themselves being armed.  And how that is better than having a society - like the UK - which has very little gun violence compared with the US.

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aehewitt

Joined:

Jan 11

Posts: 8346

aehewitt says:

Teacher`s

armed with guns,i hope i never see that in my life time...or my my Grandchildrens....:upset:

Slowlearner,100,00..... ffs..:upset:

Entus... lets never have a religious Debate on here... No !!!

Saw this the other day.....:smile(more my thing)

Photo: -cd

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Kamchat

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 29163

Kamchat says:

Guys ...

..you are being too harsh on Valko ...he is obviously right -the answer is more guns! - Everyone should be armed to the teeth at all times, the more weapons the better .....it's only when everyone has their own personal nuclear weapons that we will be fully safe. :winkie:  

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ANichol

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 990

ANichol says:

Backed into a corner

"You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube" say the NRA, and they are right. But that doesnn't mean you allow any yahoo to squeeze the tube too.

This is also an argument for legalising drugs, abortions, gay lifestyles, etc, - they exist so deal with it.

But, political reality is already stuck in a dead-end for USA. Amendment 2 gives the right for militia members to Bear Arms. US v Miller was the first court case to limit gun rights follwoing the St Valentine's day massacre. This took the teck of the Federal Government can ban any weapon not sanctioned by a militia (for military purposes). Which gives you the right to assault rifles more than hand guns.

Thanks to DC v Hellier, Antonin Scalia gave a psuedo-legal defence for "self protection" (not mentioned anywhere in the Constitution) and thus handguns are now allowed unless the STATE government says differently.

So, Obama literally cannot do anything beyond banning specific models (invalidated by a model upgrade). State governments could make all the difference in the world, but the NRA will prevent the election of anyone who stands for this policy.

Switzerland and Canada own more guns per person than America, yet do not have this porblem. America's real problem is paranoia. The whole government system is designed to be fearful of government. The society is now filled with the idea of fearing one another. To use the old joke...when people fear government you have tyranny, when government fears people you have liberty, when government fears corporations and pressure groups and people fear each other you have America.

Gun sales rocketed in America the day after the Obama election (both of them). Even if people saw the need to get rid of guns, they would not let the government do this.

All most people see if a few nut cases who kill and many gun owners who do not - would you ban cars or drinking if drink driving were a problem?

Guns don't kil people, people do...but they need guns to do it. The guns are there, they're not going away. And what can America do about it? Absolutely nothing.

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