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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Casey Stoner memories: Vittoriano Guareschi

2012 marked the end of an era when double MotoGP world champion Casey Stoner hung up his leathers after finishing third in the Valencia race in November. The Australian– widely acclaimed as one of the fastest riders in history – quit at just 27 after becoming disillusioned at constant rule changes and fearful that his lifelong passion for motorcycling would be...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (20 December 2012 13:50)

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 2668

wosihound says:

.

You were doing alright until the last few sentances when your usual bias got the better of you again.

Explain to me how Stoner trounces Hayden by 60pts, yet Rossi barely beats his team mate with a 40pt gap, a point a race less? That's a rather narrow margin of success and failure isn't it?

Also..I get the distinct impression you're trying to tell us crashes don't count where Stoner is concerned..that's rather convenient, if a little shallow. Surely you can't expect to be taken seriously with such fanboy guff?

Hayden had one top 5 finish 2012. 2010 he had eight.

What is a thoughtful fan to make of that, Einstein?..and leave the orange hand-bag at home ffs.

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doohanfan

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Jan 12

Posts: 1165

doohanfan says:

sniff

I see you have no actual arguments wosi, just assertions that you are in possession of absolute truth.

I am more than happy with what stoner has achieved, just as he is, hence why he retired.

If the acclaim stoner is due is to be directly proportional to his degree of success, and leaving aside whether he is due a greater level of acclaim because his achievements were over a shorter period of time or a lesser amount because his career was foreshortened (I think a case can be made for both) he deserves about 50% of the acclaim rosssi is due taken on number of race wins, or two-sevenths based on numbers of championships. This is still plenty of acclaim, and fairly consistent with the acclaim given him by the paddock insiders/luminaries which initiated these threads.

I have absolutely no problem with Valentino Rossi being acclaimed as very much the greatest rider. What I don't see as a necessary corollary is that all other riders are therefore dirt beneath his feet, and despite my medical training find it difficult to fathom the apparent deep psychological need for those of your ilk to assert this.  

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3024

Bultoboy says:

In order of the points raised...

The last few sentences are the same accusations you always throw at Stoner based upon your view of some of his performances, so all I was doing there was to show that the same view can be taken of similar performances by Rossi  -  hence the last line. It's your view, not mine, I don't care much for the final standings as you know.

Trouncing - there are 5 seasons of results there. In 4 out of 5, 80%, Stoner has trounced his team mates, surely you can't dispute that... ?? 

2010, the points difference itself wouldn't suggest trouncing no.  Crashes cost points, I never said they didn't count. Stoner crashed more than Hayden, therefore the points tally delta closed up from 2009.

Hayden had one top 5 finish in 2012, what do i make of that?  I don't know, maybe the 2010 bike was better, the opposition in 2012 was a lot stronger, he got slower, he wasn't trying, he crashed more...

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Hedgehog5

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Aug 02

Posts: 2315

Hedgehog5 says:

Wosi...

62 points was the smallest margin Stoner ever had back to a MotoGP team mate... shall we examine the smallest gap Rossi's ever had back to Hayden... is it 7 points?... so let's get this straight, Rossi managed, on average, to score less than half a point more than Hayden per race in 2011?... & shall we compare again how many points they each lost to their team mates when they were injured?

No... that would be a pathetic waste of time trying to prove that one rider deserves acclaim while claiming the other was overrated just because he equaled or beat him statistically in every way since they raced together. Your argument has well & truly disappeared up its own backside here...  you've already made Rossi seem far worse than he was & you're still digging.

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wosihound

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Posts: 2668

wosihound says:

There you go again..Rossi Rossi. Obsessed!

I was talking about your perception that Stoner smoked Hayden yet Rossi barely beat him?..but never mind.

It's a minor point and not one I'd expect you to aknowledge.

 

Neither is the one about Lorenzo, Rossi and Pedrosa beating Stoner in the standings more often than not, to dispell the total domination squealing from his fangirls.

On his day, Stoner was very fast..this is not in dispute.

He had two excellent years on fantastic bikes where he won over half his races, taking a brace of titles. Fairplay..

The rest of the time he was just another alien. Taking wins, getting beat, falling off..he didn't dominate or outclass anybody while he was in GP.

Let's not forget he got trounced by Dani Pedrosa on the same bike eh?..only just recently btw.

It's still news rather than history..hahaha

 

 

 

 

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Hedgehog5

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 2315

Hedgehog5 says:

Wosi...

Not obsessed, merely using him as a yardstick... he is claimed by many to be the GOAT... highly acclaimed (by me as well)... Stoner's either equaled or beaten him statistically in every respect (& every other rider with the exception of JL*) since they have been racing together yet he's overrated... is anyone here stupid enough to claim he is the GOAT?... that doesn't make sense... ?

"Let's not forget he got trounced by Dani Pedrosa on the same bike eh?..only just recently btw."

Last time he was competitive so did Rossi... shame it was so long ago eh?

 

*JL, having entered MotoGP after Stoner won his 1st championship, has a better championship record in points, podiums & championship wins... not as many race wins in that time but he's another highly acclaimed rider... the best there is out there now.

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doohanfan

Joined:

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Posts: 1165

doohanfan says:

glutton for punishment

You really are a glutton for punishment wosi.

Apart for making a negative rather than a positive case for rossi vs stoner as has been said (I am happy to call their career overlap fairly even, which is rather positive for stoner I would have thought) you are actually quoting things which detract from rather than support your arguments.

What nakomoto seems to be saying, if he is being quoted correctly and not being translated imperfectly from Japanese, is almost verbatim what I have said (pretty much in agreement with you actually), about the 2012 season, ie that Stoner could have and possibly should have won the title, if he had settled for second at sachsenring and been more focused in the following mugello race, although relating his crash at indy to these events is drawing rather a longer bow imo. What he isn't saying is anything positive about dani pedrosa, who you may not have noticed actually didn't win the 2012 championship; nakomoto doesn't seem to be intimating as far as I can tell that dani should have won the championship. Fairly strong implication that there were no team orders for hrc in 2012 either , unlike some other teams in 2012 or historically.

Nakomoto is probably still also not sure whether he should commit seppuku, as he seemed to blame himself for stoner's retirement earlier in the 2012 season. My admittedly biased reading is that he thought Stoner, as does not appear to be uncommon among riders, was bargaining when he asked for only a 1 year contract extension, and when he and/or honda replied it was a 2 year contract or nothing he to their surprise said OK it's nothing then. 

How long have you been ploughing the bike advantage furrow, with seemingly no appreciation of the irony of doing so as a rossi fan, and despite your hero being widely quoted as saying he still does not know, along with everyone else, how stoner rode the ducati so fast?.

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