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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Casey Stoner memories: Vittoriano Guareschi

2012 marked the end of an era when double MotoGP world champion Casey Stoner hung up his leathers after finishing third in the Valencia race in November. The Australian– widely acclaimed as one of the fastest riders in history – quit at just 27 after becoming disillusioned at constant rule changes and fearful that his lifelong passion for motorcycling would be...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (20 December 2012 13:50)

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3071

wosihound says:

Trounced..

Stoner twisted his ankle and was able to ride to 4th the next day.

He crashed all by himself trying to stick down an early marker in QP, behind in the standings and with races running out. We all know Casey wasn't the best under pressure.

Would Stoner have had it all his own way in 2011 had Dani been fit?

Yeah..Righto. In Peter Pan's world maybe.

 

2010, Stoner only beat Hayden by a handful more points than Rossi did 2012. I'm pretty sure you'd choke if I said Rossi trounced Nick this year.

Always making excuses and over exaggerating to blow smoke up Casey's arse.

The kid was a talent..but is in danger of being over-rated by some of his orange Gimp's..

He's gone fishing now. Best to put things behind you and pick a new hero, eh?

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doohanfan

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Posts: 1623

doohanfan says:

wosi's world

I take it then that stoner despite all appearances didn't win the 2011 championship; he obviously can't have since he was third in the points after the jerez race.

I seem to recall a certain valentino rossi crashing early in a race in 2006, it may have even have been the last race of the season, thereby conceding the championship to a rider who had not won any gp titles prior to then and by my quick tally has won 18 less premier class gp races than dani pedrosa. I guess it doesn't count since it was a different lap, and only the last race of the season rather than a mid season race. Not being (unlike you) in the business of denigrating rather than appreciating riders, I would take this as evidence that such things can happen in racing even with the very best; it would be ridiculous to suggest a crash in a single race somehow detracts from all his other success.

Btw, I gather valentino has now won 7 titles rather than 9, given your argument that dani pedrosa has never won anything.

Also btw, twisting injuries are a quite common mechanism of fracture.  

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Sniff..

You sound like you're about to start crying?

With respect to Hayden, I think we all know who the best rider was 2006.

Can't say that about Casey 2012, can we? No doubt one or two will give it a good try mind.

Shame Yamaha got complacent. They lost the title, not Rossi.

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Hedgehog5

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Hedgehog5 says:

Soup - wrong & wrong...

"you either make personal remarks about me, or slag off Rossi."

Where have I made a single personal remark about you... :blink:

... & I haven't slagged off Rossi... telling the truth isn't slagging off... I've merely stated that if you think that Stoner is overrated then the same must be applied to the underperfomance of Rossi... but more so of course. That's by your own argument... yes?

Has Stoner beaten Rossi more than Rossi's beaten Stoner?... was that despite being a rookie on a satellite Honda for the 1st year then a CF Ducati for a further 2 years while Rossi was on a rather superb Yamaha?... since you don't respond I'll answer for you... YES.

"You offer no alternative to my opinion - stoners overrated because he was beaten so easily by his team mate"

Agreed... but the highly rated Rossi was beaten by a lot more by his team mate in 2010... if you think both were overrated then fair enough... but then who do you rate 'cos they've all been beaten by their team mates?

:wacko:

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Hedgehog5

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Hedgehog5 says:

Wosi...

"2010, Stoner only beat Hayden by a handful more points than Rossi did 2012. I'm pretty sure you'd choke if I said Rossi trounced Nick this year."

Are you on drugs? 63 to 41... a 35% difference! How many extra races would that take for him to make up those 22 points?... at Hayden's score rate 3 or 4?... for an alien it may be a handful of points, 1 race win... for Hayden it's a mountain.

"He crashed all by himself trying to stick down an early marker in QP, behind in the standings and with races running out. We all know Casey wasn't the best under pressure."

... & remind us, how did Rossi crash in 2010?... no need... Rossi can do it for us...

"I had a new tyre and I'd done two laps, then I slowed down because I had Barbera behind me... seven seconds were enough to make the tyre drop temperature dramatically. The error was mine."

Rossi didn't want to give a tow to a rookie on a satellite bike who was 2 seconds a lap off the pace (but a real threat who he obviously felt was going to keep up with the champion on a factory bike over a full lap) & messed up. Stoner, who wasn't playing games, crashed (messed up if you like) while pushing the bike to it's limits, & with 2 fast laps still qualified on the 2nd row & then finished 4th with a broken foot.

Both brilliant highly acclaimed riders who made mistakes & were beaten by their team mates.

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

A point a race..

22pts in an 18 race season is just over a point a race difference..and hardly the difference between a trouncing and barely managing to beat your team mate, as many orange gay boys would have you believe, is it?

35% is typical of the stats you love to cobble up. If Stoner had beaten Hayden by 3pts and Rossi only a point, you'd be shouting 300% from the rooftops of fanboi HQ, wouldn't you?

It puts you in the same sorry arse bandit club as those who maintain Stoners 23-0 win record makes him 23 times faster or, that the wages offer from HRC he walked away from compared to Vals at Yamaha, make him 5 times more valuable or better.

Now read this slowly and let it sink in..

Jorge Lorenzo has two titles in five years, a much better record than Stoner himself.

Dani Pedrosa has none in seven.

Rossi got beat by two-time and reigning WC Lorenzo after a broken leg and and a buggered shoulder, without losing face in any head to head.

Stoner got beat by a serial loser after a twisted ankle, who had him on the run before it happened. 

 

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Hedgehog5

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Hedgehog5 says:

Wosi...

35% is 35%... it's more... a lot more... over a 3rd more points than Rossi managed to beat Hayden by. Significant if you're splitting hairs which is what you were doing... it was your statistic, yeah? Shall we scrap that line af attack?

"Jorge Lorenzo has two titles in six years, a better record than Stoner himself. Dani Pedrosa has none in seven."

(pssst... Stoner got 2 in 6 years... his 1st, in his 2nd year, came a year earlier than JL's then nothing for 3, then 1 more in 2011, not that I can see the relevance of that little gem)

How many titles had JL got when he beat Rossi?... in fact how much experience did he actually have in MotoGP? As I said before, compared to a reigning 9 times champion he was a mere rookie...

"Rossi got beat by two-time and reigning WC Lorenzo after a broken leg and and a buggered shoulder, without losing face in any head to head."

He'd been beaten twice by him that year before his injury & was winning by ... 5 times the year before that... it was the whole reason Rossi built the wall... ?

Both JL & DP fairly & deservedly beat their team mates because of injury... one by a significantly larger amount of course on what was the championship winning bike... you may hate that but you can't get away from it. I'm not using that to try to say Rossi is overrated but your argument constantly places him in that category.

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wosihound

Joined:

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Posts: 3071

wosihound says:

.

It's a point a race daftlad..all the exaggerated claims that Stoner trounced Hayden compared to Rossi are fanboy wet dreams.

The same applies to the theory Stoner dominated.

Rossi beat him in 4/7 seasons. Dani beat him 4/7. Jorge beat him 3/5.

That's losing more often than you beat your main rivals.

Hardly surprising you don't see the relevance of 4th alien Pedrosa spanking Kangaroo boy, is it?

Psst..it took Jorge 3 seasons to top a busted up Rossi.

Lorenzo knows this and so do most real fans. He knows he lost credibility after Motegi 2010, when he went blubbing to Yamaha management and he knows, like Pedrosa does, he's never beaten Rossi in a last lap battle.

Competition at this level is mostly a mental thing. Rossi has previously ruled in this area. It's the reason many believe Stoner quit and is over rated..nothing to do with how fast you can go when everything is going your way. In fact the opposite.

This is the also the reason many enthusiast's are looking forward to the 2013 season..was it the bike or has Val lost it?

A bit back & white perhaps..but I thought I'd make it easy for you to understand as you're obviously struggling. 

 

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Hedgehog5

Joined:

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Posts: 2319

Hedgehog5 says:

Wosi...

"The same applies to the theory Stoner dominated. Rossi beat him in 4/7 seasons. Jorge beat him 3/5..even Dani beat him 4 out of 7 ffs. That's losing more often than you beat your main rivals."

Good manipulation there... the fact that Stoner won more races, points, & poles than any of them during that time, & that most if not all of your stats are from his 4 years at Ducati or 1 on a satellite bike, count for nothing then?

Cool... shall we have a look at championship position averages then? Ducati years included, remarkably they score exactly the same! (though it does include Stoner's satellite rookie year... is it fair to leave that on?... yeah, let's)

:lol: :lol: :lol:... even if you include Stoner's rookie year on a satellite & 4 years on a Ducati Rossi still doesn't beat him on championship position averages over the time in question!

:lol: :lol: :lol: ... sorry but it was you that brought up championship positions.

You really are clutching at straws here Wosi... you've stated that you don't belittle Stoner's achievements & actually respect what he's done... this not only proves otherwise but actually undermines the high esteem you apparently hold for Rossi.

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Bultoboy

Joined:

Apr 11

Posts: 3365

Bultoboy says:

Yes, Trounced

2010, Stoner only beat Hayden by a handful more points than Rossi did 2012. I'm pretty sure you'd choke if I said Rossi trounced Nick this year.

Always making excuses and over exaggerating to blow smoke up Casey's arse.

Again you select the year that suits your purpose...

2007 Stoner 1st Capirossi 7th 200 points behind

2008 Stoner 2nd Melandri 17th over 200 points behind

2009 Stoner 4th Hayden 13th over 100 points behind

2010 Stoner 4th Hayden 7th 60 points behind

2011 Stoner 1st Dovi 3rd over 100 pojts behind

On the whole, I'd call that comprehensivley beating your team mate. 2010, Stoner had a few crashes as we know, but was either leading or challenging when he had them (Valencia excepted) therefore trying to win. The lost points brought Hayden closer, that's all, he was nowhere near challenging him. That's the difference between your Rossi/Hayden and Stoner/Hayden comparison - Rossi was nowhere near the podium, let alone challenging for wins. Hayden was closer to him than he was Stoner in terms of race performance, not through Rossi crashing trying to win.

With respect to Hayden, I think we all know who the best rider was 2006

Why?

With respect to your argument about Pedrosa besting Stoner in 2012, it's funny how your criteria only applies to one rider. 2006 Hayden finished ahead of Rossi, Rossi having let the pressure get to him in the last race by throwing his bike down the road all by himself. Hayden kept his head together to stay on the track, beat Rossi in the race and to the title. Rossi no doubt was still distracted from from the previous race when he was beaten by Elias and whining about his dangerous riding.

By your logic of course

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