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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

2012 MOTOGP MOMENTS – DUCATI DISASTER

It’s the Valencia MotoGP test in November, 2010 and the wave of optimism sweeping through Ducati’s factory garage is so powerful it could almost knock you off your feet. Valentino Rossi has arrived to prove the bike was no one-hit wonder in the hands of Casey Stoner and help restore Ducati as a potent threat to the Japanese domination of MotoGP. Two...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (20 December 2012 14:38)

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simoncbr1000rr

Joined:

Apr 12

Posts: 586

if u want to know....

sylvain guintolli said it,after seeing both of them when he was in motogp

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3332

Bultoboy says:

Under Achieved ?

BUT he has under achieved for a man of such obvious talent.......

23 wins on a Ducati  -  that's more wins for one rider than all other Ducati riders collectively have managed to even put it on the podium from 2007. Then there are all the poles and fastest laps that no-one else could achieve. Then there are the podiums.

All that on a bike that no-one else could ride anything like. And you call it under achieveing.

Your measurement is the number of titles. How many titles have Caprirossi, Melandri, Hayden or Rossi won on a Ducati? - none. How many wins? - one between them. How many podiums - maybe just into double figures - in 6 years.

To win titles you need more than a little slice of luck, being in the right place at the right time, the right equipment and be willing to play the percentage game and give up wins for the sake of safe points accumulation.

When Stoner binned it chasing down Pedrosa in Germany this year there were howls of delight from his detractors slating his lack of "racecraft", that he should have thought about the long game, the title, settled for second and taken the points. The same people were also moaning about the lack of racing and criticising Lorenzo for settling for second in the early season races and not pressing Stoner for the win. Yet Stoner presses for the win - criticism, hypocrisy.

He races to win which is what racing is - not settling for safe second places. Win if it looks possible.

Who gives a stuff about who wins a championship - I'd rather watch someone go balls out for a win whether they bin it or not, than someone tucked safely up in second or third bringing it home for the points - that's not racing.

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wosihound

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Jul 12

Posts: 3011

wosihound says:

Hankies please..

Mmm..

Who gives a stuff about who wins a championship - I'd rather watch someone go balls out for a win whether they bin it or not, than someone tucked safely up in second or third bringing it home for the points..

That's convenient..

Casey Stoner was a massive odds-on pre-season favourite after winning 10 races 2011, by being in the right place at the right time.

He won 10 races in 2007 by being in the right place too.

Take away the 20 wins he had in those two fortunate seasons..and his win tally is no better than serial under achiever Pedrosa.

Stoner failed this year and was beaten by his team mate..who has won fuck all in the big boys class.

What does that tell you Bulto?..apart from your above statement has got to be the biggest declaration of fanboy love ever written on MCN.

 

Yet Stoner presses for the win - criticism, hypocrisy.

Hahaha..way to go rent boy.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3332

Bultoboy says:

Hankies ??

Why convenient?  - whoever wins a title has no affect on my life so what difference does it make? I watch racing to watch people race against each other, not play the percentage game. What I can't abide is manipulated results through politics or team orders to allow someone to win a race, or give them the maximum points available at the time. It means they've earned nothing on merit. Championship results can be manipulated, all it means is someone has more points than someone elese after the last race.

Casey Stoner was a massive odds-on pre-season favourite after winning 10 races 2011, by being in the right place at the right time.

So were Dovi and Pedrosa in 2011 - they had the same opportunity. Pedrosa missed races because he was injured, he may have won more had he not been, much like Stoner this year - we'll never know. Dovi was never in it

He won 10 races in 2007 by being in the right place too.

Right place in 2007? As was Capirossi then - how many wins, poles, fastest laps or podiums did he get with the same opportunity? Remind me again.

Take away the 20 wins he had in those two fortunate seasons..and his win tally is no better than serial under achiever Pedrosa.

Both seasons there were other top class riders given the same 'fortunate' opportunities on the same bike. In 2007 they were on a better bike. Both seasons only one made the most of it. I could just as easily say take away Rossi's 5 early titles against a bunch of riders in their twilight years and he is left with no more than 'under-achiever' Stoner.

Stoner failed this year and was beaten by his team mate..who has won fuck all in the big boys class. What does that tell you Bulto?

Nothing, his season finished at Indy, the halfway point, with an injury that kept out of races - it happens. Capirossi in 06, Rossi in 2010, Lorenzo in 2011 - all missed races. Who knows what would have happened in those seasons had they not. But they did. Up to Indy, less than a race win seperated Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Stoner in points tally, with half the season still to run.

It's the 'title means best rider' bollocks I've no interest in. I'm not interested in best rider discussions full stop as it's all subjective. Are we saying Doohan was a worse rider than Criville in 1999 because stats show Criville won the title and Doohan was nowhere?

You can wriggle around using stats all you like to show flaws with Stoner but history and race footage will forever show he was the only rider capable of setting up and riding a Ducati to race wins, podiums, fastest laps and poles.

It will also show that Rossi, lauded as the set up genius and a rider with enough talent to overcome a machine's shortcomings simply wasn't and couldn't. Neither could he offer Ducati any direction on how to make the bike as he wanted - his own admission in black and white print - on record.

2012 on the bike developed for him by Ducati was indeed a disaster - one of the biggest flops in racing history. No amount of wriggling, statistical manipulation will change that, will it.

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MandyRamola

Joined:

Sep 12

Posts: 192

MandyRamola says:

???

Take away the 20 wins he had in those two fortunate seasons..and his win tally is no better than serial under achiever Pedrosa. How about taking away the wins that Valentino Rossi had when he wasn't faced with any proper competition and what do you get? Even by your standards Wosi that is a ridiculous comment.

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Nostrodamus

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Mar 09

Posts: 5112

Nostrodamus says:

So to summise Eddl

Such is the awe in which you hold Stoner's riding, that comparatively JL, DP & VR cannot hold a candle to him.

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eddl

Joined:

Dec 10

Posts: 474

eddl says:

whoops my bad, fancy slagging off and praising stoner in the same breath. in my life time roberts/spencer and stoner are the 3 fastest iv'e had the privilege to see live, lawson had better race craft has did rossi hence more titles, but in last lap battles i'd always go for rossi imo he wants to win more,.............. yes nostro stoner is the fastest racer off the last 10yrs ...............................PACEY i never said the duke was abag of shite quite the opposite you need to leave the sherry alone mate ;)

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eddl

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Dec 10

Posts: 474

eddl says:

Given enough time and water under the bridge i wonder at what rossi will say on his time at ducati at the mo i would imagine he's quite candid.

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PaceyCasey

Joined:

Jun 11

Posts: 2545

PaceyCasey says:

eddl

Once again, i suggest you re-read what was posted.

Too much 'brandy butter' over the holiday bud?

 

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Bootlegger

Joined:

Aug 11

Posts: 689

Bootlegger says:

Sachsenring 2012

Sure Casey blew it in a last gasp effort,thus sticking to his Ducati ethos of win it or bin it. Now,next round was Laguna Seca, Stoner did what he's always commited himself to ....win. He did. Indy sucked the wind out of his sails. So what ?  Best ye get complaining about other riders,as I hear,Stoner's gone fishing.

The only salvation re MotoGP being boring procession is Stoner's replacement. Marc Marquez. I like that.

Hopefully the two Andrea's on D16 along with Spies will up the ante. Poor old Karel Abraham never had a snowballs hope in hell. Neither did Hectic Hector,but they did sterling work.

Hey, Bernd Gobmeier,just a tip. Ensure all 4 riders get all access to everything week in and week out.

Afterall,Audi do want to transform Marlboro/Ducati into former Capirossi/Stoner days.

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