Skip to content

Discuss This Nicky Hayden reflects on Rossi and Ducati spell MotoGP

You are in... Forums > Discuss This > MotoGP > Nicky Hayden reflects on Rossi and Ducati spell

This is a discussion topic

This discussion topic is linked to an article on this site. You can navigate to the article by clicking on the article name in the first post.

Go to most recent reply

Anonymous

Joined:

Posts:

Matthew Birt  says:

Nicky Hayden reflects on Rossi and Ducati spell

Nicky Hayden spent most of his press briefing at Ducati’s 2013 MotoGP launch in Italy this morning looking forward to what he hopes is a brighter future after a tough campaign last year. But inevitably the American was asked to reflect on Valentino Rossi’s nightmare two-year spell at Ducati that ended with the Italian icon scoring just three podium finishes in...

Reply to this Topic  
  • Posted 2 years ago (15 January 2013 14:51)

Post a message in MotoGP

Fields marked with an asterisk * are required

   

Please note. You cannot submit more than 4000 characters as a message.

Upload image(s) from your computer (up to 3 images)

  1.  
  2.  
  3.  

Terms of use

Use of our community areas and forums is subject to important terms of use. By joining our community and using the features you agree to be bound by these terms. See terms of use below. 

Cancel
Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4508

Nostrodamus says:

Yet the Pramac

Was the machine on which Rossi achieved his best results - not withstanding weather and the huge set up advantage he received at Misano last year.


There's good reason to believe Gobmeier when he states the current D16 is not fully understood. Corse were lead by the nose by Rossi, constant changes during his tenure without sufficient comprehension.

Rossi is one dimensional in his riding. He's too accustomed to the clean style the M1 dictates. He couldn't ride the Duke dirty fast as it needs to be, and I doubt he could the RCV which also demands this more dynamic style to wring the best from it. Just look how Pedrosa has changed from a 250 corner speed king, to being the best out there at picking the bike up super quick and driving off the corners.

Rossi acknowledged after the 2010 Valencia test that he would need to adapt to the Duke. He never did, instead futilely he tried to get it changed into a M1.

The CF chassis on the Rossi rubber would be a very interesting proposition, especially with Stoner on board.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 2668

wosihound says:

More shite..

I reckon Nostro should stick to slagging Rossi off.

His technical understanding of how these bikes work and the lap time is influenced, leaves an awful lot to be desired.

Rossi started on the Pramac, a machine little changed from 2009's model..barely changed from the year before, except tyres

It's a complete joke..Stop right now Pal, before any credibility you had completely disappears.

2010 saw the 6 engine rule introduced. Ducati completely re-designed all the engine internals to cope with endurance and gave the motor a big bang firing order. The cooling system was overhauled as was the new tail mounted exhaust.

The screamer engine that had given Ducati a huge speed advantage and was largely responsible for Stoners title was gone in the quest to gain reliability.

The bike was re-designed throughout.

It was slimmer and more aerodynamic with completely new winglet fairing. The chassis was refined for better traction, and to elminate the bike’s tendency to squat during hard acceleration. To achieve these goals, Ducati redesigned the entire rear-half of the Desmosedici to be more rigid and rideable.

It started the year with completely new forks from Ohlins.

They even put bark-busters on it to make it more crash resistant..It didn't work.

Hahaha..

You thought about selling that old two-valve wreck and following V8's Nostro?

 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
Hedgehog5

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 2315

Hedgehog5 says:

Thanks Eldiablo...

... interesting & informative interview... & thank goodness for Google Translate :biggrin:

Reply to this Topic
Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4508

Nostrodamus says:

There's few more Jihadi

assasinators on MCN than our old shi'ite spewer Wosi. As a man who thinks the headstock of the old piped framed D16's could flex up to 50mm (because our couch potato observer Wosi read it once on the web somewhere) I really don't think you're in a position to lecture on the technical aspect of the sport. I think you must have been confusing Ducati's pipes with those dodgy drains you lay (in?).

Reply to this Topic
Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4508

Nostrodamus says:

DoohanFan

I've just re-read your second post, and a good one at that it is with points well made. I take on board all you say, yet surely with the multi dimensional adjustability of a modern GP machine - within certain DNA parameters - the balance of a machine is ultimately up to the crew chief. Stoner is on record as saying when the GP10 was good, it was very good, their problem was- compounded (pardon the pun) and exascerbated by tyres, giving them a very small window of set-up opportunity.

If the supposed 'rideability' of the machine was enhanced for riders other than Stoner 2010, then just why did Rossi crash the thing so much 2011? Tyres is the answer in both 2010 and 2011. Except only the adaptable rider found a way to make them work and himself competitive.

Reply to this Topic
doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1165

doohanfan says:

2010 tyres

Sure nostrodamus, your explanation is the accepted one now and may well be correct, but I don't recall it being raised until rossi starting having random crashes when he got on the bike in 2011.
 
Stoner in my memory did not attribute anything to the tyres when he was actually on the thing in 2010, and just said the thing gave way for no apparent reason  and not related to him pushing hard, to howls of derision from the peanut gallery concerning his competence as a rider and the general quality of his character. I am not sure how much the bridgestone tyre changed between 2009 and 2010 though; he obviously didn't have the  tyre on which he won the championship in 2007 when the control tyre was introduced in 2009, and I suspect didn't have it in 2008 either. I hasten to add I disagreed with this, I still don't see why he and ducati couldn't keep the tyre that bridgestone and ducati had developed over years when everyone wanted to be on michelins.

You and wosi both undoubtedly know more about the technical aspects of gp racing than I do, but my recollection is that they made major geometry changes to the bike which may have affected how the front tyre warmed up as well as stoner's rear wheel steering thing and controlled crash in every corner thing, whilst going big bang may also have altered the character of the bike.He also seemed to give up on his sighting lap blast to warm up the tyres thing after the incident in the last race of 2009.

They actually did come up with a bike which could be ridden conservatively to 4th or 5th and the odd podium by nicky hayden without threatening the front-runners. When they went back to the old front forks and stoner went back to his old riding method, several wins resulted mixed with early race dnfs, which still makes the bike flawed in my view, being forced to gamble on not crashing  in every race while getting the tyres warm not being the recipe for championships.

This is entirely my opinion with no evidence, but I think stoner was also exceedingly pissed off with the attitude of senior ducati management and the marlboro man to his illness in 2009 and was decided on going to honda fairly early in the season, and despite the view of some being quite principled didn't push too hard for the bike to go in a direction which only suited him and not ducati's riders going forward. He certainly agreed publically anyway to the change to the big bang firing order.       

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
Smackbum

Joined:

Jun 11

Posts: 217

Smackbum says:

This is all very well and good ....

... but the topic is Rossi's record and developmental input during his Ducati years.  I would have thought that this would have been a far more cut and dried argument (hence why some have chosen to go off at a tangent, I suppose), and here is my take.

Rossi was hired (along with JB and the team) to provide the missing link in the Ducati GP program.  Unfortunately they had underestimated the challenge and overestimated their abilities (there's another way of saying this but I shouldn't quote out of context).  It didn't matter how much time and money was thrown at the problems ,,,, basically there was bugger-all improvement from the first worrying test.

Rather than being the messiah, all that Rossi gave Ducati was a winless 2 -years.  About the only record he broke while there!

Reply to this Topic
Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 4508

Nostrodamus says:

Ha,ha Doohanfan

Surely you jest in light of my sloppy oversight and Wosi's technical track record. 


There is certainly merit in what you say. It's one of those things in which a number of factors come into play in deciding an ultimate outcome. 

I cannot recall what Hayden opinion of the GP10 was, as he DNF'ed 3 times to Stoner's 5 (senior class career dnf seasonal averages Hayden 2.3, Lorenzo and Pedrosa both 2.0, Stoner 1.9 and Rossi 1.6). Hayden also batted above his average 2010, so cannot have been that satisfied with the bike /tyre combo either. 

Remember also that at the Valencia 2009 test Stoner was given two engine options the big bang and an evolution screamer motor. He stated of the screamer "it wanted to rip my arms out, spin up, and try to spit you off and buck and weave". He went on to say of season 2010 "so we rode the big bang engine, it was quite similar to the other one ", "we definitely chose the right engine for this year".

 Stoner may not have specifically blamed the tyres 2010, but he is on record as stating he feels development has certainly stagnated in the single supplier era. I'd like to hear more from him on that season.

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 2668

wosihound says:

Mmm..

Sloppy is Nostrodumbarses middle name..alllied to a haughty misplaced belief that racing a rattly old two-valve Ducati in the arsehole of nowhere and getting lapped by CX500's, gives him some sort of blinding insight into the GP world.

This from the man who showed the racing forum universe the real depth of his understanding by repeatedly labelling Ducati's bike The GP16?

Old wosi, taking pity, had to spell it out to him that D16 was Ducati's acronym for their 16 valve Desmosedici and that he was actually referring to a bike that won't see the light of day until 2016..!!

That's if Ducati are still in MotoGP.

 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

Reply to this Topic
doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1165

doohanfan says:

bigbang vs screamer nostrodamus

There seemed to be two explanations for the change, quite possibly conflicting, one as wosidog says that the need for engine durability under the 6 engine rule meant limitation of revs and other limitations which precluded the screamer which I am not sure was ever said officially by any ducati source, the other that the 2010 screamer was too wild, which I too remember stoner saying.  

Bottom line was that I don't think the thing could be devloped into a yamaha like smooth handling conventional bike by anyone. Rossi and jb would seem to have looked at the thing and thought it was obviously fast and just needed the geometry tweaked to get it to handle, and probably attributed stoner's loses to his alleged impetuosity. They did eventually get rid of the front end loses but didn't find any way to get the thing to go around/through corners fast enough to be competitive, quite likely imo because there wasn't one.

Reply to this Topic

Compare Insurance

Save money by comparing quotes. It's quick and easy

Motorcycles for sale

 

It's only £13.99 to advertise your motorcycle on MCN

Sell your Motorcycle