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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Nicky Hayden tips Marc Marquez to shine early

Factory Ducati rider Nicky Hayden says he expects highly rated rookie Marc Marquez to be competitive immediately when the new MotoGP season kicks off in Qatar in early April. Marquez will replace retired double MotoGP world champion Casey Stoner at Repsol Honda in 2013 and several high profile rivals have tipped the teenager to make an instant impact. The latest is American...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (18 January 2013 12:17)

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Nostrodamus

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Mar 09

Posts: 5383

Nostrodamus says:

Ha, ha Saturn

You're turning Buddhist just as Trippy appears to be losing his religion. I suppose you needed to find another one if you've woken up to the foolishness of the 'cult of Rossi'.

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wosihound

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Jul 12

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wosihound says:

.

Disregarding a riders approach to a single race is simplistic and ignores the big picture..especially if they've got form for previous similar costly mistakes.

Lorenzo may have settled for points rather than risk a DNF..but he won the title. He managed it with only 5 engines too, a factor some seem to have discounted from the equation.  

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

Wosi

To which previous costly mistakes by which riders were you referring? I am sure I can't guess.

Jorge lorenzo is a great rider, end of story. The way the points situation was in the second half of the 2012 season, the only way he could lose the championship was by throwing the yamaha down the road trying to beat dani who may have had a superior bike by that stage and had nothing to lose by going all out for a win in every race.  On the other hand, settling for safe seconds would not have won dani the championship either given jorge's well proven lack of propensity for relenting.

That's racing.

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

.

Blinding insight DF..well done.

Bulto was basically saying it's not fair to blame Stoner for his approach when Jorge doesn't attract the same criticism for Jerez.

The difference being Casey crashed and didn't finish 2nd, losing 20pts which affected his head for the next race where he finished 8th and a lost shit-pile more. Jorge won the title..Casey came 3rd.

It's not the same thing is it?

 

As Nakamoto said..he didn't need to win in Germany.

Stoner's philosophy backfired on him..it's pretty simple really?

Try and put the hurt to one side mate, and move on?

 

 

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

Yes wosi

And if mick doohan hadn't crashed at assen in 1992 and had suboptimal immediate medical management he may have won 2 more championships and had more than his 50 odd race wins. Perhaps I have low expectations, but I thought at the conclusion of his career (and still do now actually) that mick had a fairly satisfactory career anyway.

I was not very sanguine about there being another australian world champion anytime soon after mick's retirement and stoner's first championship was a pleasant surprise and his second a bonus, particularly after all the one hit wonder stuff from those of your ilk. My main concern after he announced his retirement was that he would get seriously injured in his remaining races, which he managed to (barely) evade. A third title would have been nice, but I was entirely happy with what he had already done.

I was actually not that keen on him surpassing hailwood's win tally without surpassing his championship tally, hailwood being the real challenger to your boy being the GOAT from what I can tell, although I think king kenny roberts who I didn't see race and eddie lawson who I did see race might be in the discussion as well. .

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

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Bultoboy says:

But

Lorenzo was accused of settling for second in Jerez and not pressuring Stoner for the win (therefore Stoner was gifted the win by some accounts...)

Now you're not trying to tell me it is a smart thing to do to settle for second if you are close enough to have a go at winning that early in the season. You know that it is impossible to manage a points situation from that early in the season - what if losing that race was the cause of losing the title at the end of the season by a couple of points. Winning that race would have secured the title.

It's all very well with hindsight saying riders should have done this or that but the above situation could easily have applied to Stoner at the end of the season. Forget Indy for a moment, if he'd had a DNF though circumstances beyond his control and lost the title by 2 or 3 points, that German race could have been the difference between winning or losing the title. Settling for second wouldn't have been of any benefit and ultimately yielded the same result as throwing it down the road when at least trying to win.

It's all subjective - especially the hypocrisy depending on the rider that is the subject...

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

don't confuse them

with logic bultoboy. It wasn't at all apparent  at the time of the sachsenring race that honda had solved the problems with chatter and the new tyres and/or the hrc riders had learnt to ride around the chatter/ adapted to the new tyres or whatever. Stoner's mistake imo was underestimating dani who rode a brilliant last lap. 

If critical mistakes are to be talked about crashing for no apparent reason when not really under any pressure in the last race of a season when a high midfield finish was enough to clinch a championship would seem more critical/egregious, although a minor footnote to the enormous success of the rider concerned imo.

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CHRainmaker

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Jul 11

Posts: 1892

CHRainmaker says:

"Try and put the hurt to one side mate, and move on?"

Jeez Wosi, I almost choked on my pop tarts with that one! Haha haha haha..Your fascination with Stoner sticks out like dogs balls, and your defence of Valentino for his horrendous Ducati showing borders on Manson-esque devotion! "Try and put the hurt to one side mate, and move on?" - Genius mate, genius. Hahahahahaha..

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Bulto.

True..hindsight is a wonderful thing but, I don't accept your assertion that it's impossible to manage how you approach the championship..early or not. Finishing and racking up points wins prizes. It's not a cup competition or knock-out is it?

Lorenzo matured and took onboard advice from his management. Zeelenberg hammered it home that you can't always win and sometimes it's more prudent to settle for second best.

Jerez initially may have looked as if Jorge could have applied more pressure but, looking at the lap time, Stoner managed the gap and had something extra in the tank towards the end. Jorge tried but realised he didn't want to risk pushing over the limit when he had a safe 20pts..to build on his earlier success.

Sachsenring, Dani had it in the tank, upped the pace and managed but Stoner wasn't prepared to accept 2nd. That's all very well if you don't fall and lose 20pts. Nakamoto says that affected Casey's approach to the next race too.

 

 

 

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doohanfan

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Posts: 1795

doohanfan says:

wosi

Many riders have actually rather than theoretically lost championships by crashing, including such luminaries as mick doohan and valentino himself as I have said, more tragically wayne rainey who lost a career and an able body as well, without their other success being negated as far as I can tell. Dani pedrosa lost any chance of the championship by crashing at PI last year,  yet you praise him for finishing ahead of stoner in the points rather than chastise him for that crash.

I am beginning to think you are prejudiced against stoner.


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