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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Nicky Hayden tips Marc Marquez to shine early

Factory Ducati rider Nicky Hayden says he expects highly rated rookie Marc Marquez to be competitive immediately when the new MotoGP season kicks off in Qatar in early April. Marquez will replace retired double MotoGP world champion Casey Stoner at Repsol Honda in 2013 and several high profile rivals have tipped the teenager to make an instant impact. The latest is American...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (18 January 2013 12:17)

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

I just don't rate him as highly as you..and you struggle with it.

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Chrisb970

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Chrisb970 says:

Back to the point

Seriously now what do you think the odds are on Marquez spearing the side of Lorenzo on the first bend in Qatar?

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

How highly do I rate stoner?

Less highly than you it would seem wosi, since I didn't expect him to win 4 successive championships on a ducati. Contemporary discussion with which I agreed on another forum after his 2007 title was that he had a 1 year window to win another championship at ducati and then would need to go elsewhere, preferably honda, if he was to win multiple titles. Valentino had something to say about that, he rode superbly in 2008 as he has in many years which I have never denied. 

I have listed several riders on this thread, some with less wins than stoner, whom I consider his superior and could obviously come up with more. This doesn't for me anyway, mean that I can't enjoy a compatriot starting from nowhere  leaving to challenge the world at a young age in a sport I have followed avidly for several decades having success which is considerable by most standards, riding in a thrilling fashion whilst doing so. 2 titles and 38 wins is not nothing, particularly with 1 of the titles and 23 of the wins on a ducati, rather less prominent in the title and race win lists than honda and yamaha (or even suzuki for that matter) as you seem to be unable to grasp.

Rossi is undoubtedly better than him overall, again as I have never denied, but how many wins and titles do you think he would have had riding the same bikes as stoner?. I would give him 2 titles on the hrc hondas in 2011 and 2012, 2006 on the lcr honda with sns tyres if honda played ball but not without sns tyres, but don't see how you could be confident of any titles or many wins for ducati. 

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CHRainmaker

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Posts: 1894

CHRainmaker says:

Hey Wosi!..

Put the hurt to one side. And move on!... Bwaahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahaha hahahahaha hahaha..Oh lord...Hahahahaha hahaha...

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

not in the first corner

MM is more chance of doing so in practice and qualifying on his record.

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

doohanfan..

Fair do's matey..and if we Brits had a rider of Casey's calibre there'd be dancing in the streets.

You strike me as a decent chap talking a lot of sense. I'm not gonna knock you for shouting up the Gold..

We are discussing the finer points of riders who have proved themselves beyond a shadow of doubt..I just happen to believe that Stoner, while clearly superior in some aspects, had faults in other areas that held him back a little. I think you agree.

That doesn't mean I think the sun shines out of Rossi's arse unconditionally..he's far from perfect too.

This will be his 18th season and he'll be gunning for a 10th title through six different categories..the most wins in history in the premier class. He don't need wosi to big him up.

It's all about perspective. Let me remind you this is MCN..the biggest red-top site on the planet.

Sometimes you have to get down in the gutter and fight dirty, meet fire with fire. Don't take it too serious.

 

CHR..glad I made you laugh. Just don't overdo it eh? You're in danger of starting to sound a little desperate.

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CHRainmaker

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CHRainmaker says:

" You're in danger of starting to sound a little desperate."

Another beauty Wosi! Hahahah hahah hahaha. You keep throwing 'em up and I'll knock 'em outta the park!..

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hugelean

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Oct 07

Posts: 1306

hugelean says:

Doohan fan- its an interesting question . How many titles would stoner have won given rossis bikes ?? Sure he won once on the Honda . But would he have won on the yam?? More importantly would he have had the ability to come from miles behind on the yam in 2007 to guide it to back to back titles without changing brands. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the 2007 duke played as big a part in stoners 2007 title as he did if you could ride it which he could. But zero evidence that casey gets any better after his first season on a brand. Would Rossi have got Ducati on the right track before they went past the point of no return who knows, but he'd win for fun on the Honda and back to back titles with ease especially given stoners age as he has proven, and the Hondas that good.

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Milkybars

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Feb 11

Posts: 616

Milkybars says:

History shows

Stacey fucks up a bike the following year. There is no back to back titles on his resume, because of the shit pigs he creates the following year. He wins with a bike he has no history with then its VIVA LA SHIT PIG TIME!!!!!

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

stoner on a yamaha

I am very happy to speculate just for fun hugelean, but I am not in the business of dicrediting world championships no matter the rider involved. My basic attitude is that stoner deserves great credit for winning the 2 championships he did in the way he did, but anybody who wins a world championship in any manner deserves a lot of credit. Rossi deserves more credit than anyone for winning as many as he did particularly over such a long time span as mick doohan says, but it does not make stoner's 2 championships, both with 10 race wins, negligible. For those 2 years he did as well as anyone could have.

I think stoner would have won races on a yamaha, but would have had difficulty beating rossi for a championship particularly on a bike which was developed to suit rossi, obviously with a significant contribution to said development by valentino. Not withstanding this it is not speculative that riders other than valentino have won races and championships on yamahas including 800 yamahas, whilst no-one has won a championship on a ducati other than stoner, and only 1 other rider has won even a single race on a ducati 800. If you actually listen to what valentino himself says it is not just the handling of the ducati (he has said straight up he can't replicate the way stoner got it through corners), he doesn't like the basic characteristics of the engine, and it is hard to believe he would have found the screamer version which gave the 2007 bike any advantage it had more to his liking. Marco melandri who was not bad on a honda, although obviously not approaching valentino's standard, couldn't ride that wonderful unbeatable 2007 ducati at all.

As I said I would give Valentino the title on a 2006 honda but only if on sns tyres, the 2011 title on an hrc bike, and a fair chance of the 2012 title on an hrc bike but not if he crashed and injured himself; even valentino has had title hopes on a competitive bike derailed by crashes, in 2006 and 2010, which shows it can happen to anyone. I'll allow that he would probably have been less likely than stoner to have crashed at sachsenring and  had the bad following race.

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