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Spondon....

I didn't say failure was never the teacher's fault. No one is saying that. Useless teachers need to be prevented from doing harm through bad practice, poor subject knowledge, or neglectful classroom management.

Cushier number than other part of employment? Perhaps, but not if you consider like-for-like. To be a teacher, you need good qualifications yourself, a degree, and a postgraduate qualification. You then need to prove your abilities time and time again through continuous performance management from line managers. If you were to pass through all these hoops in most private sector equivalents, you'd be laughing all the way to the bank. Instead, you're in a meeting becuase the kid with a 30% attendnace rate didn't pass the exam.

Part of the argument on here is caused by there being no measurable for education. Tax money goes to teachers to provide an educational experience for children; it does not go to provide them with a set of qualifications regardless of their effort (or lack thereof) or talent, or attitude, etc. Yet, pass rates are all important now.

To torture a metaphor, lets turn schools into supermarkets. A supermarket exists to facilitiate people in the consumption of products they require. It does not exist to ensure that such consumption is performed regardles sof the ability or willingness of the customer to pay.

If a kid makes it through 10 years of school and still cannot read or write - can you claim all ten years of teachers have individually failed that student, or is this starting to look in part like their fault?

Perhaps there is a generational issue here. Those whose school days were teachers yelling and caning and no help for you if you simply didnt' understand. That was bad. Now its too far the other way - teachers essentially having to beg kids to do the bare minimum just so the teacdher doesn't look bad.

Your argument that soldiers are paid badly is surely an argument for improving the pay of soldiers, not for reducing everyoneelse's pay to similar poor levels? With more pay, I would spend more in my local economy, but apparently that is only a good thing when millionaire investors do it (according to current conservative economic arguments).

Private sector work

There appears to be a bit of misunderstanding about just what it's like in the private sector.  Minimum wage jobs are pretty much the standard now, with hire & fire at will commonplace.

There are "zero hours contracts", whereby you are put on standby virtually all the time, with no pay while waiting, and you must be ready to zip in whenever needed - often still at the minimum wage.

Pensions are a thing of the past, and do you really think getting inspected/ observed/ assessed VERY closely isn't part of the job in the private sector?   Do you think corporations are all cheerfully splashing out cash without keeping a damned hard look on what they're getting?

Tech corps (Dell, HP, Cisco, etc.) are not nice places to work.  There are huge workloads, usually caused by management cutting staff to the bone in regular culls right up to the point that things start to break down.

Failure to take on enormous workloads which go way past a regular 8-hour day means you're not really a "team player",  and regular salary increases are quite mythical.   We can go _years_ without a penny's raise - and just be happy we still have a job at all.

No, ANichol - we don't go "laughing all the way to the bank" even though we have to continuously prove ourselves - even with an advanced degree and all sorts of formal certifications.   IF we continually prove ourselves, we get to keep our job - if we're lucky.   And even in this paradise of the private sector, we still get hauled up to explain why things aren't working, when they're completely outside our control.

Big difference is we just don't complain and bitch about it all the damned time.

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If I've got an unfortunate attitude towards teachers, maybe you should thank your predecessors, who loved to brutalise, humiliate and bully every chance they got.   Cowards as they were for the most part, they loved to join in with the class bully to get more acceptance.  They hated kids who were obviously smarter than them too.

And I'm speaking as one who had it relatively easy.  Teachers must think we know nothing about their profession, which is odd, since all of us have seen them work at close quarters.

I do know one teacher

and I must say she is one domineering woman, but that is not because of her profession it's because she is a cow of the enth degree.

My view for what it's worth and maybe not to some peoples cup of tea but isn't teaching a vocational job? I wouldn't want to do it that's a sure fact.

I'd last maybe one day, I wouldn't be able to keep my hands off there scrawny little necks.  I sometimes think parents seem to expect teachers to instil manners etc. but that should come from home.

I'm not sure what the job entails so can't comment, but I know I get a bit naffed off when there is a teacher strike but wont engage on political issues.

But I suppose someone has to do it as long as it isn't me

If you think schools closing because of snow

is bad how about this ?

http://news.uk.msn.com/odd-news/dry-ski-slope-closed-due-to-snow 

you can go to your local shop for a tin of beans but you can't ski on your local ski slope because of

SNOW !

teaching etc

slow learner, i have also worked in the post 16 sector within engineering, so you have your opinion and Ill have mine,,,