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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Ducati factory support vital for Andrea Iannone

MotoGP rookie Andrea Iannone believes his hopes of succeeding in the new look Pramac Ducati squad will be given a massive boost by Ducati’s commitment to offer him full factory support in 2013. In a bid to reduce the performance gap to rivals Honda and Yamaha. Ducati has changed its strategy for the forthcoming world championship campaign and will bring its...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (23 January 2013 10:12)

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3365

Bultoboy says:

If Rossi was behind, under pressure from his team mate and cracked..what gives you the right to absolve Stoner?

Wosi old lad, you're tying yourself in knots again with so many back flips.

Others are just applying your "Stoner cracked under pressure from his team mate" argument to Rossi's practise crash. If pressure was the cause of one rider's crash, why not the other is the reasoning there I guess. Never ceases to amaze me how armchair or TV pundits know the state of a sportsman's mind at any given point in time.

It was much later in the season, time was running out and not only was he getting beaten by his team mate, he was a lot further behind the guy leading the championship. Flip fkn flop.

What's your definition of being beaten? Stoner had more wins, 4 to 1 and had finished ahead of Pedrosa more than Pedrosa had Stoner which included one DNF from Stoner.  After 3 races in 2010, Lorenzo was about 10 points ahead having beaten Rossi in the last 2 of them - Pressure telling on Rossi? Frustration at being beaten?

After Laguna, which followed his 'frustration' at Mugello, there was roughly one race win in points covering 1st to 3rd with 8 races left, so hardly a cause for panic. If he was frustrated at Mugello after Germany, he'd have been even more so at Laguna following Mugello which was a poor race no doubt, so what happened there? Hardly rode safely for points there did he, just went for the win and got it - no sign of panic or frustration.

Citing pressure as the cause of the Indy crash just suits your unrelenting cause of proving Stoner's fragile mind, but the reality is there isn't a shred of factual credibility in the diagnosis of panic as the cause. Other riders crashed at the same spot as well as riders in the other two classes. Stoner wasn't alone with his trip into rarified air that weekend. He's given a pretty good account for why he thinks he crashed. Rossi attributed his to pushing too hard on cold tyres. Pressure or just mistakes and bad luck.

You're going to have to try harder Wosi, get some real hard evidence that Stoner crumbled if you want your argument to have credibility, rather than base it upon what you'd merely wish to be truth or reality.

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doohanfan

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Jan 12

Posts: 1623

doohanfan says:

excuses

I am obviously well aware that stoner and rossi both made some explanation for their injury inducing crashes, and would not consider it to be uncommon for there to be an explanation for riders of such calibre crashing, or for a rider to offer an explanation when asked for one.

My excuses comment referred to whether either rider ever asserted that he would have won the championship if he had not crashed, and to my knowledge neither ever has, and stoner's "that's racing" comment regarding his crash was in response to questioning along those lines.

 

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wosihound

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Posts: 3071

wosihound says:

DF/Bulto..

Stoner came closer to saying he would have won the WC without the crash than many deemed prudent, in a piece written by Birt and published by MCN last week. Plenty here will have read it.

Basically, he pointed to Dani scoring more race wins than Jorge..and that at the time of the crash he had more wins than Dani. He backed the inference up by stating he'd been out as a result of Indy and riding unfit coming back, for "many, many races." It had hampered his efforts and cost him the title.

No blame apportioned to himself for the crash. No respect for the fact that Jorge managed the gap to his nearest championship rival by riding within himself and racking up the neccessary points, probably because it's never entered his tiny little skull there is an alternative to 'win or bin' to capture the crown. The implication was Lorenzo had the wrong approach. 

In the link I gave below he blames the electronics and reckons he could have saved the Indy crash if his team had let him ride with less traction control.

He knew there was a slippery patch on the track. Hayden didn't blame the electronics.

IF indeed his team did dial in more traction control, they probably did it to save him breaking his neck knowing what an impetuous rider he was.

 

Bulto, you softlad..have you been walking round with an Orange sack or three over your head since Mugello?

Rossi crashed before Stoner. Over the last two years and up until Stoner wrote himself off, many fans and respected commentators pointed to pressure from Jorge as the cause, yet only three races had passed and Rossi was just 9pts off the lead. It's not my argument and I certainly didn't make it up to diss Rossi.

If Rossi cracked under pressure and given Stoners dodgy record, I think it's fair to say the Australian melted and dribbled down the drain in a puddle of steaming yellow piss.

My definition of getting beaten is when you are behind on points, what's yours? Go on..tell me it's just the wins that count!

Why do you always understate the facts when it comes to defending your boyfriend Casey?

"..there was roughly one race win in points covering 1st to 3rd with 8 races left.."

Stoner was 32pts behind Lorenzo, which meant he would have had to win ALL the remaining races to lift the title if Jorge came second..and that's hardly a cause for panic?..It's not pressure?

Fkin Stoner gypsies..the pair of you.

 

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1623

doohanfan says:

straw man now as well wosi

I have never argued that rossi crashed in 2009 due to pressure, and in fact argued this was not the case at the time on another forum, and that I favoured rossi for the championship if he hadn't crashed, not that the latter is relevant to anything.

I have also never argued that stoner would have won the 2012 championship without the crash, at the time of the crash or subsequently. I thought he had no chance of beating lorenzo before the indy crash, and as events transpired even if jorge was not riding within himself as I think he was his only chance of winning the championship imo would have been for honda to enforce team orders in his favour.  I worded what I have said concerning wosiworld, knowing the vagaries of that place, carefully; a rider losing a championship or a championship placing by crashing is irrelevant to the  virtue or lack thereof of the winning or losing,  but is relevant to the points margin.

See what other logical flaws you can come up with, you will obviously lead off with ad hominem again.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3071

wosihound says:

At your own badly judged behest..

..you did argue about Qatar 2009 and make yourself look a silly little fangirl though.

Keep them dukes up pal.

hahaha..

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doohanfan

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Posts: 1623

doohanfan says:

wosi

I have no problem with acknowledging that you know something about gp bike racing, or that you are good at argument.

I was happy to argue in wosiworld with both hands tied behind my back for a little fun, and am equally happy to argue in the real world with my"dukes up" as you put it. I will specify in future in which milieu I am arguing.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3071

wosihound says:

What about acknowledging that Rossi was as fast as Stoner on his debut, that the competiton moved on while Ducati did next to fuck all which makes Stoner look better on the CF bike than he was and, that Rossi's times on the 2011 bike would have been competitive the year before?

No..I didn't think so.

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1623

doohanfan says:

wosi world

I have already acknowledged that the competition moved on, not a huge concession given this is the object of their existence. Rossi's  times may have been competitive with the yamaha and honda times  of the year before, which I have not disputed. You have tried to extend this to him being as fast as stoner on a ducati, which you have done by picking a  race in which stoner crashed  thereby disqualifying his faster time, said disqualification being somewhat valid if you choose to stick to the real world. However as you well know in the real world  whilst at different races the number of crashes was similar, while the fastest times were not, without even considering that the bike rossi inherited if any was the bike on which stoner was more successful at the end of the year rather than the bike he rode at qatar, and hence you  do not allow for any improvement by stoner  whilst yamaha and honda were improving by your own argument.

If you wish to move back to wosiworld, specify whether you wish to consider  fastest race lap times, race finishing times  or  warm-up times on the same or different days rather than "flip-flopping " or "squirming"  as you put it between them, and perhaps specify what else other than qualifying times you are going to arbitrarily exclude according to your whim.

My view on all this which I have clearly elucidated is that both the 2010 and 2011 bikes were flawed and the flaws were not rectifiable, that neither the flaws nor the failure to rectify them were the fault of either rider, and that at least part of stoner being faster was him being prepared to risk crashing which valentino , not unreasonably, was not prepared to do.

I at least give you the courtesy apart from the odd ilk reference of answering your own arguments rather than making up generic rossi fan arguments and attributing them to you.  

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