Motorcycle Forums

conflation

We argued about 2 things, in respect to neither of which you have  advanced any valid argument imo. I said grotesque rationalisation btw, not gross (although if you choose to apply that adjective as well I won't disagree); I can change it to bizarre if you like .

The first was that stoner on the reviled 2009 carbon fibre bike he apparently designed and engineered had a faster race time and fastest lap in winning  the Qatar 2009  race than rossi had in the 2011 Qatar race. This is in the record books, which even you cannot dispute. Apparently  because valentino's underwear was too tight in 2011 or something similar these times are not comparable, although any comparison which favours any argument you choose to make is not affected by anything other than rider talent.

You also contended , as far as I can tell, that there is no weather at night; it is a long time since I did Geography at school, but my memory is fairly good and I believe this to be untrue, as illustrated by the 2009 race being postponed 1 day due to a rainstorm, which rather proves I would have thought that conditions can change at night.

What you have never even tried to answer (possibly because you can't) is the small matter of the  times in the 2010 post season test, and  valentino himself saying he could not replicate what stoner did on the ducati.Whether a bike produced by a competent team/manufacturer should have to be ridden that  way is entirely another question, to which imo the answer is no.  

{EDIT I have read the thread  from the start, your first comment was not antagonistic although erroneous imo, what ducati have done is not accept that their bike needed taming, rather than look for another stoner; ducati management if not ducati corse and ducati's major sponsor saw no need to retain the stoner they had.   My dispute with you started when after a post of mine ( in which I politely largely agreed with you) you sneered about stoner's lack of acquaintance with throttle cables, despite their absence in the premier class in his time, and their presence in other classes of bike racing in which he has competed. You have also run this silly argument repeatedly on multiple threads about rossi somehow outriding stoner on the ducati, which I regard as grotesque as in weird and distorted as I said}.

 

argumentum ad hominem

You always know when you have won the argument when your opponent resorts to argumentum ad hominem, particularly of such  bellicosity.

There are many reasons I would accept for rossi being slower than stoner in the post season test, including his unfamiliarity with the bike and his injuries at the time. Such excuses would I thought not be relevant in wosiworld where pedrosa's points margin to stoner in 2012 was not influenced by stoner's broken ankle.

What I will give you is credit for standing by your man (not that he requires it), having been in a similar position in stoner's lean years. What I don't get is such desperate hatred for a retired motogp champion, given that it would seem, again bizarrely, that you are to some extent serious.

Wosi...

"Hedgey..None, nada, not relevant."

You said Faster... I've come up with a blanket 17 stats that say Casey was faster in 2010 than Rossi in 2011 when they were riding as fast as they could competing against the clock & each other for a place on the grid... you've cherry picked a tiny handful that could be used as evidence to the contrary. He was faster in all but one qualifying session over the 2 years... but you say that's irrelevant 'cos it doesn't suit your argument... surprise surprise... whether you count them as relevant or not is irrelevant to me & I think everyone else can make their own minds up. You're clutching at straws again.

crashes

No wosi, I don't think either stoner or rossi cracked under pressure from a team-mate, I think both had practice crashes as happens to most riders every year, rossi rather  infrequently compared to most over his career, and unfortunately on these occasions suffered significant injuries. I am not aware of either making excuses, stoner in fact said "that's racing" and didn't even reiterate his previous criticism of the track.

Given that they crashed, other than it being unfortunate for them,  and pedrosa  and lorenzo didn't, credit to lorenzo and pedrosa with no need for further conclusions concerning stoner and rossi. I actually think rossi had a fair shot at the title if he hadn't crashed.

 I have not run out of arguments regarding stoner, rossi and qatar, I have realised the futility of arguing with someone  with such a capacity to see bias in others and assume its absence in himself.  It is entirely obvious that many things can influence fastest laps and race times compared across years, as everyone told you when you raised the argument in the first place. I also obviously agree that yamaha and honda improved their bikes more than ducati in recent years, but if it is creditable for rossi on the 2011 ducati to be close to his fastest lap on the winning yamaha in 2010, I don't see why stoner's fastest lap in 2009 on  the bike for which you have so condemned him is also not of some relevance.

 

 

I'm feeling magnanimous..

..after my little rant.

At the risk of shooting myself in the foot after the throttle cable comment.

I think there is some contradiction in what he says however, that is maybe worth discussion..?

Stoner on the Indy crash.

http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_12010_hayden_stoner_electronics_reason_for_indy_highside_crashes/viewall.html