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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi undone by Ducati DNA

Valentino Rossi was unable to master Ducati’s fearsome Desmosedici machine because the bike behaved in a way that was totally alien to the riding style the nine-times world champion honed for almost two decades MotoGP paddock. That’s the view of new Ducati boss Bernhard Gobmeier, who has been charged with spearheading Ducati’s recovery after the Bologna factory endured a miserable lack...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (29 January 2013 15:18)

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TrumpetTriple

Joined:

Aug 02

Posts: 550

So Nostro...

Your comment that the D16 behaves like any other motorcycle, i hadn't realised you'd ridden it as you must have done if you can state that as fact.

Pedro could ride it as you have to dominate like the RCV .. is this the RCV Honda similar to the one that Rossi rode back in 2002/3 and won two titles on ?

Just wondering like. 

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Nostrodamus

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Mar 09

Posts: 5186

Nostrodamus says:

Wosi on the Strongbows

early this morning. Lots of bile and vitriol mixed with the usual non- substantive Flossi dross.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3046

wosihound says:

Puddled.

You need to get some sleep my friend as you're losing it.

We were comparing 2009 to 2011 and Rossi was faster than Stoner taking out the first lap..only fair as Rossi had to deal with traffic & Stoner didn't.

Wosi only ever compared Rossi's times on the Yamaha 2010 vs his times on the Ducati 2011.

Your assertion was that track conditions in the washed out, re-scheduled race of 2009 were likely to be slower..not faster. This is because you were trying to find an excuse/reason how Ducati God Stoner, in his third year on the bike, could actually be slower than Rossi who was making his debut.

The constant gymnastics and back-flipping does a man of your obvious education little credit and shows you up to be a Stoner fanboy of the first order. Well done.

Stop being a stero-typically bad loser and admit it..From lap 2 to the end Rossi was faster than Stoner..on his debut. The track was infact faster on the re-scheduled Monday making your excuses about a washed out slick track accounting for the difference irrelevant.
 

Check here for confirmation: http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics

 

This ain't denigrating Stoner pal..just pointing out that the over used cliche that Rossi couldn't ride the bike, perpetuated by orange sycophants masquerading as fair minded race fans such as your good self, is complete bunkum.

Get over your jumped up self Bruce..

 


 

 

 

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Nostrodamus

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 5186

Nostrodamus says:

Trumpy

The more pertinent question is when two motorcycles have the same basic architecture and geometry  - (let's say the D16 & RCV) aluminium beam frame, vee four engine, underslung swinging arm, telescopic forks, 250hp - why on earth would they behave significantly different? They don't.

A bit of water under the bridge since 2002 don't you think? Not to mention the moment Barros got a (lower spec) RCV he immediately beat Rossi on it.

My basic point is Rossi has not progressed in his riding. He's reached a talent ceiling whilst others have raised the bar higher.

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DogBert

Joined:

Jan 13

Posts: 204

DogBert says:

This bar

It was raised just after Rossi finished the 2010 season 3,1,3,2,3, with a crook leg and gimpy shoulder?

The majority of the field found something just at the time he jumped on a to a bike that had been on a declining trend since 2007? Notice the word trend here. For Casey, then Nicky, it was always down.

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bikemad123

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 110

bikemad123 says:

only 3 days to go till sepang does anyone know if its being broadcast anywhere outside the rip off that is motogp.com

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3046

wosihound says:

Interesting..

What is the measure by which to judge progression..Nostro's big-brained analysis and two-valved exploits aside?

Improvement from one season to the next could be considered valid?..but that of course would mean the only alien who doesn't fits the bill here is Casey Stoner.

What about improving your gap over the same team mate?..Oh dear no, we can't have that.

Some give the impression of improvement, but fail to deliver the big prize on what is clearly superior equipment.

Maybe riding a bad bike for a few years then jumping on to a good one can help and make a rider feel more comfortable, like the difference between a bar stool and a leather recliner?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1608

doohanfan says:

again wosi

you change the ground.

As you well know your original comparison was fastest race lap times, which you have varied to race finishing times to warm up times etc as you looked things up along the way to suit your purpose.

I do this for fun, and work from memory rather than looking things up first, but will sometimes look things up after I have formed my argument and  posted to check minor matters of fact or when I get into disputes such as this.

Just to be clear my understanding is that stoner had by far the fastest race lap time of all 3 years on a ducati in 2010 but crashed , had a slightly faster fastest lap but a slightly slower finishing time in 2009 compared with rossi on a yamaha in 2010, and yes rossi's fastest lap and finishing time in 2011 were quite creditable in comparison with his yamaha times in 2010.

However your purpose seems to be to discredit stoner, semi-seriously or not, where I don't really seek to discredit rossi. If you look up all the times the thing that most impressed me was how much closer rossi's fastest race lap time in 2009 was to stoner's fastest race lap then in comparison to warm-up times etc, a sign of what a racer he was/is, particularly on the yamaha then and in 2010 before his injuries, and on one of stoner's fastest tracks as you say on a bike which by my own argument was fairly good for him that year when he wasn't crook.

Sure starting further down the grid affects total race time , and  taking more risks to get a better qualifying time helps it, you pays your money and you takes your choice as the americans say. There is a possibility that being in a secure lead could either improve your total race time due to there being no interference from other riders, or retard it due to there being no need to push. Perhaps fastest race lap is actually the least likely to be affected by starting down the field.

We agree that ducati were a shambles by 2011 (I would say by 2010 myself) and that even valentino couldn't have success in a 2 year period on a bike which required a total re-design as I predicted would be necessary on another forum before he started there. Btw, I came up with the schadenfreude thing on that forum early in 2010, but did not persist in feeling it myself once it became apparent many were wrong about stoner being remiss in not being able to fix the thing, and that in fact no-one could. I actually would genuinely be happy for valentino to win the championship this year, admittedly partly because I am not all jokes aside entirely keen on total spanish domination particularly if marquez is the agent, and partly because he is imo the greater rider. if he does do so and matches ago it will be in perhaps rather similar circumstances and possibly his greatest championship as  ago's 8th was for him imo.

Still think what stoner did on a ducati, a marque closer to cagiva than honda and yamaha imo, was remarkable, even in 2007 though.   

[This Reply has been modified by the Author]

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weskit

Joined:

Jun 10

Posts: 510

weskit says:

lies, damned lies, and wosi's statistics

Lap times improved across the board at Losail between 2009 and 2011 for riders on the same bike (do you think maybe the tyres made a differnce?). Lorenzo was about 1.5s a lap faster, Dovizioso 2.1s faster, Hayden 2.5s faster. But no doubt there are extenuating circumstances for all of these, and the only valid comparison is between Stoner and Rossi's times, discarding the first lap of course.

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wosihound

Joined:

Jul 12

Posts: 3046

wosihound says:

No mate..as I said, the argument is NOT to denigrate Casey per se, but to illustrate Rossi was fast - admittedly maybe not quite AS fast - at the start of his tenure before all the changes, which apparently started as soon as he crossed the line in Qatar 2011.

It's directed at the fanboys who are like lazy sheep, following and believing what they're told and by-and-large can't form their own opinion. They're not students of GP.

The same applies to the theory that Stoner trounced team mate Hayden 2010 and Rossi squeaked home in front of him by a nose 2011 because race crashes apparently don't count.

You've been hanging around here long enough to appreciate the invective directed towards Rossi and maybe some of it has been deserved given the shit Stoner has copped in the past. But most of that shit/ banter call it what you like..has been directed at the man not the rider.

He isn't generally very popular NOT because he presented a threat on track but because of his personality. Those that say this is unfair & should have nothing to do with it, seem to forget the exposure these top guys have. It's part & parcel of the game nowadays and is a big part of the reason they earn so much money.

Like it or not..Rossi is a household name and the sport is literally richer for his involvement.

When you've been at the top for as long as him there will inevitably be some petty jealousy from both riders and fans who think he's big-headed and want to see him fail.

This is pretty normal as far as my experience goes and happens in regular life too. Human nature..seven deadly sins and all that.

But..I'm a fan and it would be rude not to point out some errors in judgement, especially when they're coming from a cock like Stoner and his grumpy fucko fans. 

 

 

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