Motorcycle Forums

again wosi

you change the ground.

As you well know your original comparison was fastest race lap times, which you have varied to race finishing times to warm up times etc as you looked things up along the way to suit your purpose.

I do this for fun, and work from memory rather than looking things up first, but will sometimes look things up after I have formed my argument and  posted to check minor matters of fact or when I get into disputes such as this.

Just to be clear my understanding is that stoner had by far the fastest race lap time of all 3 years on a ducati in 2010 but crashed , had a slightly faster fastest lap but a slightly slower finishing time in 2009 compared with rossi on a yamaha in 2010, and yes rossi's fastest lap and finishing time in 2011 were quite creditable in comparison with his yamaha times in 2010.

However your purpose seems to be to discredit stoner, semi-seriously or not, where I don't really seek to discredit rossi. If you look up all the times the thing that most impressed me was how much closer rossi's fastest race lap time in 2009 was to stoner's fastest race lap then in comparison to warm-up times etc, a sign of what a racer he was/is, particularly on the yamaha then and in 2010 before his injuries, and on one of stoner's fastest tracks as you say on a bike which by my own argument was fairly good for him that year when he wasn't crook.

Sure starting further down the grid affects total race time , and  taking more risks to get a better qualifying time helps it, you pays your money and you takes your choice as the americans say. There is a possibility that being in a secure lead could either improve your total race time due to there being no interference from other riders, or retard it due to there being no need to push. Perhaps fastest race lap is actually the least likely to be affected by starting down the field.

We agree that ducati were a shambles by 2011 (I would say by 2010 myself) and that even valentino couldn't have success in a 2 year period on a bike which required a total re-design as I predicted would be necessary on another forum before he started there. Btw, I came up with the schadenfreude thing on that forum early in 2010, but did not persist in feeling it myself once it became apparent many were wrong about stoner being remiss in not being able to fix the thing, and that in fact no-one could. I actually would genuinely be happy for valentino to win the championship this year, admittedly partly because I am not all jokes aside entirely keen on total spanish domination particularly if marquez is the agent, and partly because he is imo the greater rider. if he does do so and matches ago it will be in perhaps rather similar circumstances and possibly his greatest championship as  ago's 8th was for him imo.

Still think what stoner did on a ducati, a marque closer to cagiva than honda and yamaha imo, was remarkable, even in 2007 though.   

No mate..as I said, the argument is NOT to denigrate Casey per se, but to illustrate Rossi was fast - admittedly maybe not quite AS fast - at the start of his tenure before all the changes, which apparently started as soon as he crossed the line in Qatar 2011.

It's directed at the fanboys who are like lazy sheep, following and believing what they're told and by-and-large can't form their own opinion. They're not students of GP.

The same applies to the theory that Stoner trounced team mate Hayden 2010 and Rossi squeaked home in front of him by a nose 2011 because race crashes apparently don't count.

You've been hanging around here long enough to appreciate the invective directed towards Rossi and maybe some of it has been deserved given the shit Stoner has copped in the past. But most of that shit/ banter call it what you like..has been directed at the man not the rider.

He isn't generally very popular NOT because he presented a threat on track but because of his personality. Those that say this is unfair & should have nothing to do with it, seem to forget the exposure these top guys have. It's part & parcel of the game nowadays and is a big part of the reason they earn so much money.

Like it or not..Rossi is a household name and the sport is literally richer for his involvement.

When you've been at the top for as long as him there will inevitably be some petty jealousy from both riders and fans who think he's big-headed and want to see him fail.

This is pretty normal as far as my experience goes and happens in regular life too. Human nature..seven deadly sins and all that.

But..I'm a fan and it would be rude not to point out some errors in judgement, especially when they're coming from a cock like Stoner and his grumpy fucko fans. 

I think we are argued out wosi

Yes, I acknowledge stoner crashed at qatar 2010 and rossi didn't at qatar 2011. I don't really see what your argument is otherwise.


I have taken little or no issue with criticism of stoner's character, other than to sometimes point out that his perceived sins are not unique. You and anyone else are obviously free to dislike him as you wish, what I take issue with and argue against is the continual attribution of his  achievements to bike advantages on evidence which is flimsy imo if not in yours and when such bike advantages are not looked for in relation to others, these things perhaps being rather formative in his attitudes in any case.

It is very late here, too late to get into further logical fallacies,  but you hating him or even a majority of fans of other riders hating him  doesn't necessarily translate into people who actually know him hating him, including other riders.

average laptimes wosi

You'd think someone with such a strong grasp of the stats would have noticed that. And notice Stoner is talking about the difficulty getting them warmed up, not about their speeds.

This has to be your best line yet Wosi

There is nothing..and I mean NOTHING worse than a fanboy who makes his own results up to try and look smart.

 And this from the king of the comedy 'statistic'. Fuggin' clown.