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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Ben Spies backs new Ducati strategy

Ben Spies believes Ducati’s new strategy to give full factory machinery to its entire MotoGP line-up in 2013 will be crucial in helping the Italian manufacturer close the gap to Honda and Yamaha. In a bid to develop the Desmosedici at a much faster rate and expand the amount of rider feedback, Spies, Andrea Iannone, Nicky Hayden and Andrea Dovizioso will...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (31 January 2013 16:04)

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wosihound

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Jul 12

Posts: 2891

wosihound says:

CHR..

It's pretty common knowledge that Honda had big problems with the handling of their bike into 2010. They brought a low-loader full of frames and swing arms to Qatar and made Pedrosa test them all,  because they were fed up with him just saying.." I don't like it and prefer the old one"

Personally, I think Dovizioso's efforts to sort that bike are underestimated. He was the muel racing with new stuff and was hot from the start of 2010. Pedrosa had a good run through the mid-season then got injured and Jorge ran away with it.

Honda threw everything at the bike 2011 and it was head and shoulders above the Yamaha, who didn't really make any progress until 2012 and the new class. Why change a proven championship winning 800 formula that was gonna change the following year? They tried to make what they had last as it was 2011, the last season of 800. Their development program was concentrated on the 1000cc bike.

Sure the Japs got caught on the hop 2007 which is why Stoner won. They caught up with pneumatic valves 2008, but the big step was getting the Bridgestone tyre 2009.

Stoner winning pressure free races at the end of 2010, by reverting to his shit or bust method, does not constitute a competitive championship contending bike. It just shows that he had to ride the bike beyond it's limits. You don't win championships pushing at 110%, as he illustrated. He had a different agenda at that point and it wasn't riding for a title.

Rossi's agenda was different. He wasn't interested in employing the same win or bin method to mount a title challenge. Breaking his neck to mask Ducati's engineering woes was not part of the plan. He told them that and gave them new direction but they we too slow on the uptake. The bike DID improve as Hayden says, just not as fast as the others through 2011 & 2012 which has been the big step up period for the Japs.

First with Honda, then Yamaha and from mid 2012, Honda again. Ducati doing fuck all over the winter and likely as not starting Qatar with the bike they finished with at Valencia will mean the gap to their MSMA competition grows again, while The ART bikes get closer to them.

 

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

rossi and ducati

I think rossi made a fairly hasty decision to go to ducati, but with a win now agenda; I don't think he was contemplating a 3 year development program at that stage of his career. It is of course speculation but I think mainly he wanted to have a racing effort focused on him the better to get the wins and probably one further championship that he wanted, and perhaps also to prove something to yamaha or jarvis anyway.

Once it became obvious that the thing needed more than just a little sorting I think both he and ducati were in a no-win situation. It is just not possible for an operation like ducati corse, or probably anyone else, to come up with a championship contending aluminium space frame chassis bike from scratch in a few months whoever is guiding them, and rossi certainly didn't have 3 or 4 years to develop such a bike even if he had wanted to. The six engine rule also screwed ducati just as  the control tyre did imo, and the litre formula together with the fuel restrictions probably removed any significant engine advantage. Engines had always been their strong point, even in the 990s imo.  

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CHRainmaker

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CHRainmaker says:

Hugelean, I've come to like you..

..so in this instance I'm not gonna rip you a new a' hole, but mate, I almost had myself an aneurism with that last post. Every sentence you write appears to be a pre cursor to contradict the next. It's hard going me old China and despite your best intentions, as a reader, I'm left in a constant state of confusion.. In future, a one or two word answer will suffice. x

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CHRainmaker

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CHRainmaker says:

Wosi, I'm moving on..

..You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened... or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the fuck on. I love you Wosi, but all this fighting just can't go on. Casey's gone, it was strange, really. A couple months ago, I had thought I couldn’t live without him. Apparently I could. Tomorrow is my new start...Wooohooo!!...

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Perfect timing.

I'm with you my friend..time to move forward.

I've been thinking the same for a while now. I'm glad you've made the call. You are a brave man.

C'mon Shag, take my hand..let us step forth into the bright winter sunshine unburdened by the past, heads held high, eyes fixed positively on the coming season..and as our pace quickens we start to skip, joy in our hearts, our feet barely touching the ground....

..Which is all good because it means I won't have to polish the DM's again, to give Pacey a good arse kicking when Vale starts winning.

:laugh::tongue::wink: 

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Smackbum

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Smackbum says:

We all agree, Wosi-troll ...

... that Vale can win on the best bike.  But there still seems to be some unfathomable belief that he can turn the 3rd-best bike into a winner.

Let me fill you in on the past two seasons, because your short-term memory is shit even though you remember Laguna Seca 2008 like it was yesterday. [ Early onset dementia springs to mind, but I digress]

Rossi finished his first Ducati season in 7th place, equal on points with wild child Marco, who he had to thank for his solitary podium that year.  In his second and last season he made a dramatic improvement to 6th in the championship with 2 podiums.  Two seasons of finishing half a minute behind the leaders and with no victories, and yet (if you can believe the hype) Ducati still wanted him to carry on.  The Cult of Rossi is alive and well, and weak-minded fools are everywhere.

 

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

More back flipping from the anti-Rossi brigade..

No smackhead..we don't all agree, which is fine, each to their own.

BUT..a good few prominent members of your insidious little club have staked their credibility as regular MCN posters, that Rossi is washed up and didn't deserve his previous titles because he can only win on the best bike, which he always had until moving to Ducati.

That he doesn't deserve his seat next to Lorenzo..is only there because he controls MotoGP and takes it up the starfish from Uncle Carmelo.

The Ducati is a shit bike, despite his efforts. Nobody would be mounting a title challenge on it the way it sits in the Sepang pit lane as we speak..and I mean NOBODY.

The problem your blinkered little fools have, is confusing the circumstances of certain winning rides on the bike three seasons ago with the situation now, and pointing to those circumstances as proof that Rossi is vastly over rated.

Well, we're about to find out if the muppets are right or..because of the injustice and hurt felt in certain quarters for whatever, they're full of shit..or in your case, full of drugs which are probably LSD.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

rossi's test times

No reason at all for rossi not to be immediately fast back on a Yamaha, he won a race riding injured fairly close to the end of his previous tenure.

If yamaha give him equal treatment to Jorge, and the hrc bike is not off the planet, both of which look to be true thus far, he will obviously contend and may match ago's 8th premier class championship under somewhat parallel circumstances.  I think he is the least likely of the top 4 to have been particularly trying to set a fast time as well.

Marquez was the biggest surprise for me, very impressive to be up with these guys from the get-go.

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Indeed doohanfan..Marquez being so close is deeply impressive on his first real examination against the opposition.

Rossi on the Spaniard: "I understood today that Marquez will try to win the MotoGP title this year."

Your analysis also seems to hold water..The top three set their fastest times at the death, whereas Rossi's best lap was posted before lunch.

Shall we roll out the flag of agreement?

 

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hugelean

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Oct 07

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hugelean says:

Marquez nothing short of brilliant today. Dani and Jorge wanted to be top and he pushed them hard. Rossi clearly not bothering to push the limits of the bike until it's a bit more sorted(old bull, young bull) but by the sounds of things knows he will be fast enough to compete.. Marquez more than a fair swap for stoner could be a titanic season!! ps Love Rossi's comment about MM(not melandri..)..

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