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philehidiot

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 4658

philehidiot says:

EU new plans

They have allocated nearly £2 million to employ staff to trawl through social networks, forums, etc looking for evidence of euroskeptic opinions. They are to then find the ringleaders and discredit them.


"NINETEEN EIGHTY FOUR" WAS NOT MEANT AS A HANDBOOK ON HOW TO RUN THE PERFECT STATE.

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  • Posted 2 years ago (04 February 2013 20:25)

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philehidiot

Joined:

Feb 09

Posts: 4658

philehidiot says:

And just to

be sure, I hope you're seeing this as a friendly debate and not personal in any way.

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SlowLearner

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 1953

SlowLearner says:

philehidiot:

First of all,  I'm seeing this entirely as a friendly debate, and the same with Weasel64 for that matter.

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There are good and some shockingly bad aspects of any institution, particularly one as massive as a government, or a super-government body.  Singling out the odd example (like something about chimps, which I know nothing about) isn't all that helpful.  I could refer to a dozen good interventions from the EU, where money has gone to projects which has helped communities, just as easily.   The anti-EU propaganda has been relentless.

But onto your specific points.   Things like GATT and other WTO treaties have taken away far more sovereign powers from us that the EU, and the US is a far bigger dictator of our policies.

(If the participation rate in voting for EU representatives were more than about 20%, maybe we'd have more notice taken of our concerns.)

Getting foreign workers flooding in here during good times keeps labour costs down.   Boom times are when unions can negotiate for better conditions that will persist even in bad times.  Foreign workers wipe away that ability.  They'll also do menial jobs that British workers will not do - at least, not for the wages on offer.    Decent wages are not on offer because of the foreign slave-wage workers.

Restriction-free imports, a so-called "free trade" between us and the rest of the world makes us compete with Chinese prisoner on labour costs.  There is absolutely no way we can win that one, and it's got next to nothing to do with the EU.

But I'll certainly agree that having vastly poorer countries able to flood us with migrants (in good times or bad) is a terrible blight on the working man in this country.  But the investor class loves it.

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SlowLearner

Joined:

Feb 10

Posts: 1953

SlowLearner says:

philehidiot: part2/2

About the renewables - Germany was able not only to avoid commissioning new nuclear plants but also shut down existing units, because of renewable resources.  They have ramped up their solar collectors to the point that their grid had a hard time dealing with the amount generated.  Germany is about as cloudy as the UK, btw.

I understand your point about the variable nature of wind generation, but there are solutions.  Water can be pumped up into large reservoirs, which drive turbines when released at a moments' notice.   Scottish Power have operated one precisely to meet peak demand like this for decades, for instance.

In Denmark they are introducing a scheme with electric cars, which act as a huge mobile battery network.   They are connected to the grid while stationary, at home or work.   They buy electricity, but can sell back to the grid during periods of low renewable generation. 

The point being, if the average capacity of generation is sufficient, the peaks and troughs can be dealt with.

Do you think windfarms "ruin" the countryside?  Really?   I think roads, sprawling housing estates and mining operations ruin it far more.   The windmill itself will each only occupies a few square yards, the supposed damage is repairable enough.   If the scenery being "spoiled" is the problem, that's a matter of opinion.

Besides, they won't be everywhere, and one gets used to it the same way we get used to everything else.   The  anti-windfarm brigade also calls them "bird-choppers" and so on.  I've not come across any evidence for this, and presumably neither have they, because they never provide any.   I contacted the RSPB to get their opinion - they said they don't have any evidence for it (this was several years ago).
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Anyway, straying from the point a bit.   Trident is just one programme, and is due to cost us up to £100 BILLION.   This is something that we're certainly never going to use, at least, not without the say-so (or orders) of the Americans.   You say the EU costs us £2 billion a year.  OK, granted.   I think it's a price worth paying so that we don't have any more wars between us and other EU countries, such as those we fought for almost all recorded history up until the end of WW-II. 

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Mankind

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 1371

Mankind says:

Hee hee

Just a few points. We are not subjects of the Queen any more, and have been citizens since 1949. We are now officially EU citizens, and that includes the Queen.

Ex BNP members are not allowed to join UKIP.
UKIP are definitely more far right than the third reich, as they were national socialists. 
Total state control over everything, and pretty much the polar opposite of UKIP.
Immigration suppreses wages, and helps the employers directly, but not indirectly, in the form of higher taxes, to pay for all the benefits.
It also helps politicos, who try to appear to support the less well off, to have plenty of less well off to vote for them.
In the same way it wouldn't be good for Oxfam workers, if there was no poverty in Africa.

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