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K1mzzz

Joined:

Dec 12

Posts: 4

K1mzzz says:

Mod 2: "Give Way" confusion!

Hi all,

I have my mod 2 coming up in three days and am practicing hard :smile

I can't seem to get junctions correct though when it comes to using the proper procedures :upset:...

What my instructor has said (say coming up to a give way sign & turning left)
1) check mirrors
2) LEFT lifesaver
3) left indicator + position so no-one can undertake you
4) LEFT lifesaver
5) turn

I can get upto number 3 correct, but if I am to do another lifesaver AND check the road is clear (and that it is safe to go), I have to stop to do this! The whole process doesn't flow!

What is the correct way of doing this? I can't seem to keep going on a Give Way even if it is clear whilst doing the proper checks!

Is the second lifesaver really necessary? Without this, I can quite easily judge whether it is safe to go / stop etc. without having to bring the bike to a stop every time! (Don't want to get done for undue hesitation!)

Appreciating any help or advice that you can give me :smile

Cheers,

Kim

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  • Posted 2 years ago (17 February 2013 23:22)

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jaffa90

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 8820

jaffa90 says:

Give way

I`m old hat and this sounds like bull*hit to pass a test,if you have an instructor ASK him/her to show you what to do whilst riding in FRONT of you.

To me it sounds like,

check mirrors,

left lifesaver,

left indicator + position on your left,

look right left and right again,

left life saver and go if clear.

The last life saver is just another further head turner to the left after looking right left and right again (giving way).

Why can`t car/van test drivers have this then they can see bikers?

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jaffa90

Joined:

Mar 09

Posts: 8820

jaffa90 says:

second life saver

Just realised,you may have a dic*head pedal cyclist just undertake you when you enter that road.:smile

Still bull*hit though.

   

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Diablere

Joined:

Dec 12

Posts: 1437

Diablere says:

it's 20 years

since i was a motorcycle instructor, but having said that most looks over your shoulder then  were to show the examiner that you were looking behind you. 90% of these will become mirror checks when you've passed (maybe even 99%). but the idea was you were showing you were looking about. i can't comment on todays tests but it doesn't sound that differant. if your instructor thinks you need to do it, then try to do it, but as i said 20 years ago, whats in front is more important, so don't waste looking behind if you lose whats in front!

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Amateurcynic

Joined:

Jun 09

Posts: 1048

Amateurcynic says:

Jaffa's

Summed it up perfectly. Round my way that first lifesaver was deemed unnecessary, by the time you need to "close the door" to pushbikes on your left you're already going through the motions of the "manoever" but stick with what you've been taught, examiners can be a little "Ahem, Finneky"!

The idea with the test is to get you into the habit of doing a lifesaver to the point it becomes second nature/subconcious decision. Once you've passed the test you can now start making the decision Not to do a lifesaver because you know for certain there's nowt there.

Always do a lifesaver before I overtake anything, doesn't matter how quick you are, there's usually someone quicker & if they make the (poor) decision to pass you just as you're about to overtake......

well at best it'll end in tears!:ph43r:

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Steveyman

Joined:

Jan 08

Posts: 616

Steveyman says:

Common sense

The danger approching a give way is both from left and right directions, left if someone cuts the corner but more so from the right obviously the traffic flow, depending on the junction sometimes you can get a good view.

As for closing the door if you haven't passed a cyclist approaching the give way, why do a lifesaver to look for a cyclist passing on the inside.

Unfortunately for your test, the examiners want to see that you are doing everything as a habit especially observations and lifesavers. Then there is no worry you aren't going to do them and have an accident.

They just want you to be safe.

As said before after the test with more miles and experience common sense will prevail as there are thousands of situations that you just can't write in a little blue book.:smile

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roadglue

Joined:

Nov 12

Posts: 8

roadglue says:

Try and ride naturally

I was trying to do everything like my instructor said but in the end i rode my way because i felt more comfortable doing so.

I've had 3 different instructors and they all slightly differed.

I just did observations when i felt i needed to do them.Not when i thought an examiner wanted to see one and i passed first time.

Sometimes i would do a quick glance on approach and if the road was clear i'd go without doing a second.If you have to stop i'd do a second before you set off.

I think they over teach you sometimes and it can be difficult doing everything robotically ,instead of riding more naturally.

I had 2 examiners in a car following me, so i think i must have been doing the right thing and not just passed because he felt sorry for me :)

 

 

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AdieR

Joined:

Apr 08

Posts: 3042

AdieR says:

Missed this one

haven't been on here for a while.

My consensus is that a lifesaver is to check you have clear space BEFORE you change position (to see the areas that are missed by your mirrors), so I don't see the logic of the second one myself.

With roundabouts, a lifesaver to your intended position, and a LEFT lifesaver as you exit it.

As stated by others, time, experience and road miles help: for example at night you'll soon notice headlights of traffic behind which will help you decide whether you need a lifesaver or not. On motorways with a slip road entering it, I'll glance over early on, and simply use mirrors afterwards.

Out of interest, how did you get on with the test?

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beaconsman

Joined:

Sep 09

Posts: 1755

beaconsman says:

rear obs

The rear obs is to make sure no one is on your blind spot before you make the manoeuvre.  In towns, I agree, but as most of my riding is done on rural roads, I only check behind when left turns/.right turns at junctions, roundabouts when exiting,  dual carriageways/motorways when overtaking and pulling back in..ZZR11 has awesome mirrors tho..


I failed my mod 2 as didn't see a stop line as it was broken and looked like a give way..the signs were about 12 ft high! 2 weeks later i passed with 1 minor.

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rcraven

Joined:

Nov 08

Posts: 120

rcraven says:

lifesavers

Jaffa. one got it right. 

On approach to the T junction look in mirrors and because you are turning left and therefore move from your present more central position to nearer to the pavement in order to proceed towards the mouth and turn left in that position you need a left lifesaver just so you didn't see anything left of you in you rear view mirrors. and in a blind spot .Indicating your intention of turning left   You are positioned correctly and change speed, slowing and gear if needs be

 

Now you are at the mouth of the junction and you look left,right,left as you should and if u see anything approaching from your right decide to stop or slow even further to allow it to pass.

  Assuming now its all clear  you want to turn and accelerate so  take another left lifesaver as a cyclist not seen before could have come up on your nearside whilst you were slowing. nothing there you can accelerate and take the corner.

 

simples ok

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bbstrikesagain

Joined:

Nov 08

Posts: 878

Our inability to see stuff 1st time

scares the wotsit out of me.  Yes, it isn't just cage drivers that might miss something important.


With that in mind I proceed more slowly than most at a Give Way, to fit in double obs.  If crossing a crossroads or turning left I'll look right, left and right again.  That's different from rc's left-right-left.

Why right-left-right instead?  The most immediate risk would be something you missed on the right, so look twice to be sure (I'm old enough to remember the green cross code).  After that you're pretty much going to be looking for a 2nd time where you're headed, so everything covered twice.

If drivers did this too there'd be no more snidsy...

Don't replace lifesavers with mirrors, use both, covers blind spots but also provides double obs to get over the weaknesses in our ability to see.

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