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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Aggressive riding clampdown won't hurt MotoGP

A new penalty points system to clampdown on dangerous and aggressive riding across all three classes in the MotoGP world championship in 2013 won’t make the likes of Valentino Rossi or Cal Crutchlow think twice about making risky overtakes. That’s the opinion of Crutchlow’s Monster Yamaha Tech 3 team boss Herve Poncharal ahead of the new season, which will see a...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (27 March 2013 13:46)

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tris123

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Feb 09

Posts: 230

tris123 says:

Alternatively they could just add 10 seconds to the riders overall race time +2 seconds per incident/race and reset for the next year.

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williewheelbreaker

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Jul 08

Posts: 978

Agree with tris

Whether or not MM gets a Bad Boy point ever again or not. Starting a much faster rider from the back of the grid or pit lane is begging for disaster. A Reinhold Roth waiting to happen and he was the fast top gun. Different circumstances but it will only be a matter of time even if it takes ten years it will be too soon. As for a slowing down lap check out the horrific smash by Taira (Yam) into Roche (Cagiva) after the race at Imola 1988. Magee - Shobert at Laguna.... Shit the more you think about it the more you remember. MM's incident at PI should have had a ban... F'kin STUPID!

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

I think

Bautista did get a suspension , and so he should have.

As I said, no way should rossi have got a penalty at laguna seca. In my biased opinion, he shouldn't have been allowed to gain or maintain a position by going off track, as is the case in motorsport generally, but I don't know if there was such a rule in place at the time of the race; if not, it was probably because no-one would deliberately make that move because it would nearly always result in putting the bike down if you weren't valentino rossi.

If valentino had made the corkscrew move which would have resulted in him torpedoing stoner, who was on track on the racing line, at about a 90 degree vector and at a significant velocity deliberately then it would have deserved a sanction.

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moto4

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moto4 says:

Doohan fan

I really enjoyed the Laguna Seca Rossi/Stoner battle but you are correct Rossi's move was absolutely illegal, regardless of the fact I gasped and cheered when he pulled it off. It is now, was then and always has been a precept in the charter of FIM and FIA rules (and others no doubt) that racing must take place within the confines of the racetrack. This is accepted to mean between the markings and whether Rossi would or could've knocked Stoner off is irrelevant- the move was illegal...albeit fabulous. For all Rossi's apparent laissez-faire attitude (which given he is such a ruthless racer I suspect means it is an affectation used brilliantly as a weapon against many of his competitors)I suspect had Casey done that to Rossi and particularly had he knocked him off but gone one to win himself, Rossi and his legion of fans would've complained endlessly. Moreover I belive Dorna would've sanctioned anyone if it had happened TO Rossi. As has been much repeated Rossi has been a cash cow for Dorna and has had preferential treatment. If that bothers some, I understand but equally, he has done so much for the profile of MotoGP that one can understand why he may sometimes be looked at favourably.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

fair comment moto4

My post was perhaps confused; I meant that rossi deserved no post race sanction for dirty riding.

I don't actually know whether there was a rule in motogp in general or at laguna seca in particular that covered going off track at that time; there certainly is in wsbk currently as max biaggi can testify, although his excursion was on tarmac. Alex Zanardi won an Indy car race by a similar manoeuvre at the corkscrew which was subsequently made illegal in that series, but doing this on 4 wheels is a little more easily achieved.

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DogBert

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DogBert says:

Corking move

The sanction these days would be to give the place up. Stoner took him two corners later so the point is moot.

So while it was a great move, and a controversial one in some's eyes, it didn't cause Stoner to fall off when he did and lose the battle.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

the corkscrew incident 2008

was obviously demonstrative of valentino's great skill and will to win etc etc, but he basically lost the bike and saved it. As I continue to say I don't think it was dirty, but imo stoner was entitled to be pissed off about nearly being taken out through no fault of his own.

I agree it had little to do with stoner's later lose which he has never said was anything except his own fault, apart from that if he had got out of the corkscrew clearly ahead he would have been over the hills and far away, hence valentino's in most ways admirable desperation.

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1986vfr750

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Apr 09

Posts: 478

1986vfr750 says:

rossis move

At laguna was not illegal...he made a mistake, went in too hot and made an unbelieveable save. Stoner tried to ptevent rossi from coming back on track by giving him no room, hoping rossi would crash and stoner could cruise to victory. Coming up the hill stoner banged into rossis bike going by when he didnt have to as there was lots of room. Stoner was the dangerous one. Running into rossis bike on the way up the hill and trying to prevent rossi from being able to get back on the track on the way down the corkscrew. He was pissed because rossi pulled off a move that was impossible, basically saying to stoner" ok fucker you want to get nuts lets get nuts...rossi had nowhere to go and stoner wssnt going to allow him back on the track so rossi created space from nothing and stoner didnt think it was possible...if you dont believe me watch the first 4 laps...there is a great onboard of casey running into rossi on the way up the hill because rossi passed him at the bottom of the hill and casey was sooo mad...then when rossi passed him at the corkscrew and made a mistake, casey tried to hug the line so he couldnt get back on track. And before all the casey lovers say he " was racing on his best lin", thats bullshit. He didnt use that line normally, he wanted rossi to crash and was stunned and furious when he didnt. And rossi got no advantage by it...he rejoined the track half a bike length behind casey...

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

rather a matter of perspective

I think you may find vfr.

Stoner did have the rather considerable disadvantage of ending up on the other side of the track where he had to go to avoid being torpedoed, with rossi then having the line out of the corkscrew. I really doubt he had time to consider anything prior to that, just as rossi had no time to do anything other than keep the bike upright as best he could, other than putting the bike down and taking stoner out anyway, or sliding down into the fence I am told by people who know the topography of the corkscrew. As schwantz et al said the best way for stoner to win the race would have been to pull back and let rossi slew across the track then take off into the distance, but I personally doubt he had time to think of doing this.

One man's bumping on the approach to the corkscrew is another man's maintaining /refusing to concede position after nearly being forced off the track at the previous corner whilst ahead on the racing line by a rider outside you, and stoner was on a line feasible for making the corner which rossi was not as events demonstrated, from my perspective which is likely to be as biased as yours but no more so.


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1986vfr750

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Apr 09

Posts: 478

1986vfr750 says:

doohan

True true it is a matter of perspective of course...casey passed rossi going up the hill though so i dont feel it was a case of holding his position...it looks like from the video that it was more a case him pulling a biaggi...an uneccesarily close pass designed to intimidate. As for the corkscrew, watch the video...yes casey ended up having to dodge, but as rossi was in the gravel casey was right on the inside line blocking him from getting back on track...he only dodged when vale said" im coming over consequences be damned!". I agree the best and proper thing would have been for casey to pull back a little...thats why i say he tried to ensure that rossi crashed...he gave him no room to get out of the dirt choosing instead to try to squeeze him into laying the bike down.. The bumping im referring to happened on the way up the hill in a straight line with lots of room. Casey was mad because rossi passed him at the bottom of the hill for the second time in a row and quite easily too, so i think casey had the red mist. You are absolutely right though it is all just opinion, i was not there and i dont know what they were thinking...i have watched that race though several times, and the body language seemed to indicate casey was pissed and vale was very determined. Your opinion is definitely as valid as mine mate as these posts are just that...opinion. It would be nice if others on here realized that as well...cheers

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