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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Ducati MotoGP effort boosted by new CEO appointment

Nicky Hayden and Ducati MotoGP boss Paolo Ciabatti believe Claudio Domenicali’s recent appointment as CEO of the Bologna factory can only be a major plus for its MotoGP and WSB projects. Domenicali took charge of Ducati after the sudden and shock departure of Gabriele del Torchio, who left to head up Italy’s national airline Alitalia. Domenicali is renowned for his love of...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (25 April 2013 10:44)

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wosihound

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Jul 12

Posts: 2907

wosihound says:

Benny..ol wosi knows what he's looking at because he's seen the inside of a gearbox and understands how it works.

You, on the other hand, obviously haven't..or else you wouldn't be posting stupid links that don't support a word you've said.

Talking of which..you still haven't mentioned how last week you were telling us all that the RCV box was worth a third of a second, but now it's no better than an off the peg number anybody can buy?

This is what I mean when I say..excuse me if I don't take you seriously.

You're alright for a laugh and enjoy the wind-up under multiple personalities..but leave the technical stuff to the heavyweights sunshine. You're way out of your depth.

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Bultoboy

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Bultoboy says:

Heavyweights Wosi?

That would be Ryder and Spalding then that you're using as a source of your information....

 

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Spalders..

..as I like to call him Bulto.

Yes..on this occasion, and as you probably heard last weekend yourself, Spalders was on about the Yamaha transmission all weekend..only to back track at the end saying he didn't think they had a seamless box after all.

Ryder is a journalist looking for the scoop and has a limited technical grasp..he was just the foil.

I don't always agree with what Spalding says as he gets sucked into Ryders headline game, and he has got to have one of the dullest delivery's on TV.

However..he has written a very good book about GP tech and owns Sigma Slipper Cutches, he is respected in the paddock and knows his oninons.

His technical writing in the MCN is one of the best things about their GP coverage IMO.

It doesn't take much to appear a technical heavyweight around these parts with all the Fanboy slagging, especially if you base the mark on Benny's contribution.

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Nostrodamus

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Nostrodamus says:

Wosi you old twisted bowel

You must be in some discomfort this morning after all your fantastical guessing below.

Absolutely nobody outside of the inner circle of HRC and their appointed transmission man at GP's (there was an interesting little read on this on superbikeplanet recently) know the constituent components of the HRC 'box and clutch.

Let's also remember that Jerry Burgess states he's seen inside a Yamaha transmission and it's a very special bit of kit in it's own right.

This speculation (and that is all it is) with 0.1 per corner, 0.3 - 0.5 per lap advantage for HRC, is just that - pure speculation. My understanding is the supposed advantage the seamless transmission offers is accelerating through the gears on the edge on the tyre as the gear changes upset the suspension / drive less than a traditional transmission system (Nostro knows about these having to rebuild the telegraphic messaging system 'box of his Guzzi once, ha, ha). Just how many race tracks of the world have corners in which gears are changed under these circumstances? I don't recall seeing a lot of crazy pumping coming from the arse end of those Yamaha's. In fact those Honda's look a damn site more 'squirrelly' coming out of bends. But this is perhaps also something to do with the contrasting riding styles of the four factories riders. The smoothness of Lorenzo & nr.2 contrasting with the throttle aggressiveness of the HRC boys.

Again even if these figure are true then we must remember they are perhaps tempered by the Yamaha's superior manners in the bends. As stated on numerous occasions, a fact vindicated in lap times (least not those of Cal Cruchlow), there's fack all to separate the performance of the two Japanese marques.

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Well said..

and I'd agree to a large point.

I'd say both races so far have been at horsepower tracks with long straights and high terminal velocity..this IS Honda territory and the transmission helps their bikes get there quicker.

It will also help them at other tracks where shifting at big lean angles is neccessary, like you say.

Yamaha will have their preferred tracks too and some of them are coming up soon. 

In a race however..it is more difficult for a rider on a slower bike. If they can't overtake a faster bike early in a lap or well before a big straight, to build a gap that can't be bridged by the next drag strip, all the lithe and nimble handling in the world is negated. 

Fat out corner speed and lap time pace unhindered in practice/testing ain't life in the real world..as I suspect you know after campaigning that wheezy old two valve.

We had it years back with the 400/500 2T twins against the V4s, to analogise in extreme. we have it today with Espargaro running some great sector times only to get blasted and lose position.

The RCV is hardly a bus and I don't care what you say about Pedrosa's skill levels and his ability..I don't buy that he's a better racer than Lorenzo..or even the worlds #6.  

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Bultoboy

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Bultoboy says:

But

He's a 'technical journalist' and what exactly does that mean? I've no idea of his background, has he qualified as an engineer? Or is it because he raced when he was younger it qualifies him as 'technical'?  Being a motogp technical journalist doesn't mean he is privvy to the correct facts and figures of Yamaha and Honda gearboxes.

As you say, he was adamant that the Yamaha couldn't achieve the lap times it did relative to the Honda without a seamless gearbox, so his conclusion was that it had one. He then backtracked completely from that remark because he said you could tell from the engine note at gear changes that it wasn't seamless. We know the Ducati has a seamless box, so how does the little engine revs graphic look when they change gear? 

This is the problem with these expert pundits. They think they have to provide the answer to everything and they love to give the impression of being astute enough that they do it through reasoned deduction from what they see or hear. Fact is it was pretty obvious he hadn't a clue about the Yamaha geabox

They love to expound their theories as fact as to why a particular rider is doing what he's doing. With the Yamaha, first off it was a new gearbox, then no, wait a minute, no it isn't, it's beacuse Lorenzo altered his gearing to take the hairpins in second, so he could lap quicker

No mention of whether Cal also altered his gearing as at various stages in the race he was running the same lap times on his 'bitza'. Was he taking the hairpins in 1st or 2nd or didn't it make any difference?

If it's all down to the gearbox, why did Cal comfortably outpace two factory spec Hondas on his bitza with non-seamless box? He passed Bradl through the slalom where Bradl would have the much touted advantage of being able to change up whilst leant over

Too much analysis. Maybe the Hondas were fastest because their two riders just rode a bit faster on this occassion. Their lap times were close, a difference of 0.2s in fastest laps. The biggest difference in fastest laps was in sector 2 where both Hondas put a fastest time 0.2 s quicker then the fastest Yam. That sector included the second hairpin with the slalom before it and hardly any straight after it. Sector 4 which included most of the uphill pit straight (following a hairpin to get onto it) and the hairpin at turn 1. Cal was second fastest time here only 0.01s slower than MM.

These figures can be looked at over and over but they show nothing conclusive. If you rode 2 hOndas back to back with everything constant but the gearbox, maybe then you could say for definite exactly what the advantage is.

Under race conditions where a rider is reacting to what's going on around him, conditions aren't constant, it's nigh on impossible to say what difference that gearbox makes. If it was that real, Cal wouldn't have been 4th.

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doohanfan

Joined:

Jan 12

Posts: 1484

doohanfan says:

tell you what wosi

If you cease to go on about bike advantages (in gp bike racing, for chrissakes as you put it) I will cease responding to said nonsense.

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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Bike advantages today in 2013 are just as relevant as they've ever been..it's topical. You're defence of a whining homeboy ex-racer are not. No fkin deal DF.

Bulto..everybody but agenda driven Orange reckon the Honda box is worth having. They were charging three-quarters of a million for it.

Others with far greater knowledge and insight have put figures on the advatage, yet you insist like Benny it's inconclusive?

You're entitled to your opinion..but in the face of weighty evidence, you too are in danger of looking an idiot.

Change the fkin record Son. 

 

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Nostrodamus

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Mar 09

Posts: 4983

Nostrodamus says:

I reckon Wosi

The 23kmph speed deficit of Espargaro would explain the 2.5 second time difference at COTA. I'm pretty sure you cannot with any certainty pin the 0.2 secs on 4kmph.

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wosihound

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Jul 12

Posts: 2907

wosihound says:

What do you reckon 15 horsepower and a million dollar transmission is worth Nostro?

 

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