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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi blasts ‘crazy’ Alvaro Bautista

Valentino Rossi has urged MotoGP bosses to speak to Alvaro Bautista after the Italian was almost caught up in a first lap incident with the Gresini Honda rider for the second race in succession in Barcelona yesterday. Rossi and Bautista collided on the opening lap of the nine-times world champion’s home race in Mugello earlier this month and both crashed heavily. Both...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (17 June 2013 10:22)

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Bultoboy

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Apr 11

Posts: 3328

Bultoboy says:

Doubting T

You and a few others are the ones playing the different record when it suits.

What about my past paragraph? If places aren't important in those first few corners why didn't Rossi just give him room, keep out of the way and concede the place instead of fighting tooth and nail for it? Bautista had better drive from the previous corner and had got up the inside of him. Rossi closed in on him. I'm not blaming Rossi but it contradicts your argument that you shouldn't race on cold tyres in the first few laps. The first corner is where Lorenzo won his last two races ffs.

Aren't you fond of praising Rossi for his ability to pass in the pack around the first few corners. Don't Rossi and Cal both say how important it is to be with the front three immediately so that they don't get away?

Different record indeed when it suits you sir...

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RevNutz

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Jan 13

Posts: 163

RevNutz says:

Bautista and Rossi

Bautista crashed because he tried to turn it too tight passed Rossi who had gone wide, but it was too much and he lost it, in the end, it's no-ones fault, a racer tries to overtake, and a racer tries not to be overtaken. It just so happens that Bautista tried a bit too hard, and it's coincidence that Rossi was around when it happened. I'm glad Bautista is trying to race the fast boys instead of acknowledging his bike is only good enough for a 6th at best.

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DoubtingThomas

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Apr 13

Posts: 371

Baffling

Aren't you fond of praising Rossi for his ability to pass in the pack around the first few corners.

What exactly has Rossi's skill, or anyone else's skill at passing people got to do with Bautista's growing list of first lap fuck ups?

Bautista had better drive from the previous corner and had got up the inside of him. Rossi closed in on him. I'm not blaming Rossi but it contradicts your argument that you shouldn't race on cold tyres in the first few laps.

What kind of warped world do you inhabit? Where did I say you shouldn't race on cold tyres? I said he should stop crashing and taking people out. Casey was the one that always complained about people "racing" in the first few laps. He was the one that wanted everyone to hold station 'till his tyres hit the right temp on his little dash readout. Never heard you complain about him saying that.

If places aren't important in those first few corners why didn't Rossi just give him room

He gave him plenty of room, places are important, Bautista fucked up on his own and has said so. The shot of him in the garage with his helmet still on, head in his hands says it all don't you think? Or are we going to get the Bulto spin on that too?

The first corner is where Lorenzo won his last two races ffs.

This, from you, the guy who jumps on anyone you perceive to have slighted or denigrated any riders achievements. It was nothing to do with the consistent fast lap times that Dani and Marc couldn't live with? Nah, get to the front first few corners, job done.

What a fucking hypocrite.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

El D

You never disappoint.

I was going to post mainly agreeing with one of Wosi's posts.

Bautista has a proven record as a serial major and dangerous idiot, much worse than poor Marco Simoncelli ever was, without his talent and pace. He was equally culpable in  this race as he was in the previous race imo, and Valentino's point this time is a valid one after being somewhat forbearing last time; what is the point of taking out both yourself and a much faster rider who has just overtaken you, particularly on the first lap?

Laguna Seca Corkscrew 2008 was not a pass in any case btw, it was maintaining a position by desperately if audaciously and remarkably basically losing the bike and saving it, going off track in the process, relying on the other rider to avoid a major high speed collision, which is fairly obviously would have happened if the other rider had been Bautista instead of Stoner. I agree the pass on Lorenzo was rather more elegant.

Wosi, in my biased opinion multilateral conflation is occurring with the tyre situation. Stoner said the new "hard" tyre would prove insufficiently durable under race conditions. He has undoubtedly been proved correct, see Cal's reference to the wear characteristics of this tyre in the other current thread and more detailed discussions concerning this elsewhere in regard to the recent race week-end, as well as failures of this tyre in the past including I believe one episode involving Rossi last year.

Whether the tyre was designed to thwart Stoner is another question; I don't think it was designed to help him, but nor do I believe it was specifically designed to help Rossi, and may have been tangential to both and mainly designed to aid Dorna's then current flawed CRT concept. In any event, it would seem to be proof that Dorna are quite capable of devising rules without any assistance from Honda which have the opposite of their intended effect and end up helping Honda anyway, who will just build a new chassis particularly if they perceive an issue with face. Dorna may have gotten confused in an attempt to emulate other series as is habitual with them (both the emulation and the confusion) ie the faster wearing tyres in F1 and WSBK, but would seem to have succeeded only in further reducing the tyre options, with this "hard" tyre having similar performance and durability to the previous and continuing "soft" tyre as Cal seems to imply.

I agree, btw , that the engine rule is and always was a farce and only further helps Honda, and was quite possibly at their instigation with this in mind. 

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nigelg79

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Jun 12

Posts: 9

nigelg79 says:

Get as you give

Regardless of the audacity of the move, I don't really think Rossi has a point. I am a fan of his but he has made countless other similar, well documented moves on lots of different riders: Biaggi, Gibernau, Stoner to name a few. It's the nature of racing and whether you think the move was on or not (clearly not as he crashed), he went for a pass and it didn't work out. Lets not get like F1 where people are scared to pass now for fear of penalties, it's racing and Rossi is just using this to deflect away from his pretty average results this season.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

I am

a convicted(by some) Stoner fan Nigel, but whatever your perspective Bautista is an idiot, who has taken out multiple championship contenders with impossible moves when he himself is not competitive with them, whether due to his bike or his talent.

I am considered by many to be a Rossi hater, but imo the only unequivocally dirty move in his career was the Gibernau last corner torpedo. Jerez 2011 and Laguna Seca Corkscrew 2008 were imo mistakes ( I am sure many will disagree with the latter) with Jerez 2011 egregious and Bautista-like because it was unnecessary and not even likely to win him a race let alone a championship. Some of the Biaggi contretemps had a  little more bilaterality than was imputed at the time, again imo, but overall Valentino is probably the safest and most proficient passer in GP racing history. 



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PaceyCasey

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Jun 11

Posts: 2501

PaceyCasey says:

ElDire

We should both thank 'bulto' for reminding us of Stoner/Rossi at Jerez I guess? 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You responded with ''Why are you the only asshole in here bringing a retired racer to the conversation again???''..............................................................Another FAIL 'Dire'. My you're racking them up but hey, God loves a trier.

Prick.

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bigbashbonanza

Joined:

Mar 07

Posts: 276

I agree with some of the below comments....

That Vale is one of the cleanest racers out there. If a rider had to go toe to toe with another, they would (in my humble opinion) chose to race with Vale. He has had his hot head moments (all real racers have or they wouldn't get to the top of the tree) but he is fair, clean and knows how to handle a bike on the limit, therefore negating throwing it into the path of another rider. Even though I've given him and Jeremy Birdshit some grief over the years, he is a top rider and commands respect by all who love the sport. But that doesn't mean he's some God like figure (for all you Yellow Fella's!), just a remarkable rider who's had a remarkable career.

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doohanfan

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Posts: 1458

doohanfan says:

What you are doing El D

is known as having it both ways.

I didn't bring up Laguna Seca 2008, but yes it was an uncontrolled move and Bautista -like in that, and would have led to both riders being taken out except for evasive action by Stoner who was on the track on the racing line. It would have been an uncontrolled move if Stoner had been the perpetrator as well. I didn't say it was dirty, just as I don't think Bautista's moves are dirty, just stupid.

I was agreeing with you overall, Bautista is a serial idiot with no judgement, whereas Rossi is possibly the best and safest passer in history, which doesn't mean he has never been guilty of an ill-judged move in his long career, just very infrequently.

Stoner has a very good record in premier class racing as well, the only time he has contributed to an adverse outcome was as a rookie in 2006 when him putting his bike down led to other riders going down and being injured , but that wasn't a passing move. His only really questionable pass was ironically the one on Bautista last year, where he deserved flak for hypocrisy having complained about rough/injudicious riding by others for years and particularly on that week-end. As an incident in isolation it wasn't all that bad imo and didn't take Bautista down, who certainly didn't take evasive action.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

sure El D

my point was that I hadn't brought Stoner into this thread.

I have no problem with Rossi complaining about Bautista, he is entirely justified imo. I didn't have much problem with anything he said about Stoner either, although the "not pushing hard enough" comment did come back to bite him a little.

I actually disagree with the ostensible point made by your opponents on this thread, as I have said Rossi can say what he likes about Bautista as far as I am concerned. Where I would find common ground with them is in finding hypocrisy in Rossi fans who pilloried Stoner for his reactions after Laguna Seca 2008 and Jerez 2011, given that the incidents were not entirely dissimilar to the recent two involving Bautista imo.

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