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Anonymous

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Matthew Birt  says:

Valentino Rossi ranks Assen win as one of best ever

Valentino Rossi ranked his 80th MotoGP victory in an enthralling Assen race yesterday (Saturday) as one of the best of his career after he rolled back the years to win for the first time since 2010. Winless since the Sepang race in Malaysia 32 months ago, Rossi controlled the 26-lap Dutch TT from the sixth lap to notch an incredible 106th...

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  • Posted 2 years ago (30 June 2013 12:44)

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DoubtingThomas

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Apr 13

Posts: 371

Wrong CH

Stoner complaining about the bike was never the reason for the "Moaner" moniker. Nah, his general grumpiness about virtually everything else covered that.

Pacey - I seriously don't know of anyone in "real life" as it were, that thought Rossi would jump on the red barge and get close to Jorge, Casey or Dani. In time, maybe, but it didn't happen. And as time marches on we can all see where the real problem lies, even if some aren't willing to admit it openly. Ducati have lost the plot somewhat.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

the problem DT

was that Rossi himself was clearly one of those who thought he could win quickly at Ducati, or he wouldn't have gone there. He didn't go there for a development challenge, imo he went there because he wanted to be a number 1 factory rider with a factory effort focused on him (not a criticism of him, this is fairly clearly what has worked best over the years), the better to surpass Ago statistically. It was the only misjudgement of his career, but a fairly major one.

Certainly JB had his doubts, on a TV interview in Australia in 2010 before the deal for Rossi to move was done he talked about the difference in resources particularly in regard to development between Yamaha and Ducati with respect to the new Ducati front forks which were similar to those on the Yamaha.

And any moaning done by Stoner was surpassed by several orders of magnitude by moaning about him, particularly moaning about him moaning.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

I said resources BBL

not budget, although we are talking about the budget in 2009 and 2010, anyway.

Ducati Corse was, then anyway, a tiny operation with not many more staff than Kenny Roberts' operation had. JB's point was that the Yamaha forks were developed for months or years, and had been exhaustively tested by the Yamaha test riders, before they got anywhere near the GP riders. This may be partly a reflection of approach I suppose. Otherwise , if you wish to take further issue take it up with JB, because I am merely reporting what he said. on the Australian TV coverage for one of the races during Valentino's absence through injury; they had him in the studio.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

I was referring to engineering/technical resources

BBL, as was JB I think, and it is with him that you are essentially arguing rather than me, as I said. Whatever good work Ohlins may have done, the forks still need to be integrated with the bike and compatible with the design of the bike. One implication which  I believe was intended was that Ducati testing and development was less rigorous; this possibly could be put down to culture rather than just money or engineering resources I suppose, but Yamaha certainly have more engineering resources than Ducati did, and it would seem in JB's opinion test more rigorously and for longer for whatever reason. I don't think anyone to whom Ducati could subcontract is going to have resources in regard to bike engineering in general or motogp racebike engineering in particular to match Yamaha anyway, who I think own Ohlins btw, unless they subcontracted to HRC.



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wosihound

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wosihound says:

Yellow suspenders..

Ohlins own Ohlins..not Yamaha.

I get the impression Ducati's inadequacies in GP are being swept under the carpet.

Bridgestone and now Ohlins are to blame..Brembo next?

The Swedish companies products are respected and used by almost everyone else. They are the most adjustable piece of hardware on a bike with factory technicians custom building internals. Corse are not forced to use them.

When Stoner was swapping forks at Ducati, he was chasing his tail.

When Rossi moved to Bologna, Burgess refused to blame the suspension for front-end problems because he knew they worked well on everyone else's bikes.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

as you obviously know Wosi

Yamaha were the majority owner of Ohlins for quite some years, and likely up until quite close to the time when the 2010 forks were being developed, unless they were the product of a radical new project which only started in 2008, not that they restricted the supply of the Ohlins technology anyway as far as I know.

I was relating JB's take which I thought a non-Australian TV watcher may not have heard, with which I assume you agree as I do, which l don't believe was anything to do with the quality of  Ohlins' product. 
 

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CH987

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May 09

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CH987 says:

Ohlins

Yamaha still own 5%. I may be just a humble Engineer but it seems to me that the requirements of a carbon fibre frame would of varied somewhat from a beam type frame.

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Nostrodamus

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Mar 09

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Nostrodamus says:

What weird forked tangent are you off on DF?

Jerry said the Ducati was a much closer starting point to being competitive than the M1 when he first got his hands on that. Jerry also said he'd never met a motorcycle he couldn't tune, Jerry further muttered something about 80 seconds.

He was a victim of his own hubris as much as the current world nr.6 was. He thought he had fairly dust in his tool kit. Transpired he didn't. Stop making excuses for him.

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doohanfan

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doohanfan says:

I am relating, Nostro,

what Burgess said as a guest in the Channel 10 studio, with Darryl Beattie and that idiot Greg Rust, before one of the races in 2010 during Rossi's enforced absence and before the Rossi to Ducati decision had been announced, and I presume before it was made.

To get into the realm of inference, he didn't seem dead keen on the idea of Ducati at that time.  I am a fan of  Stoner, of Doohan obviously and of the other great mid to late 80s and early 90s riders, and to a lesser extent of Gardner with a soft spot for McCoy as far as riders go, but have always been a Ducati fan apart from that. Burgess's primary loyalty would seem to be to Valentino above bike manufacturers and former riders, and good luck to him for that; my speculation would be that he wasn't sold on the idea of the Ducati venture beforehand but went along with it once Valentino was decided.

It was still a great achievement for Ducati to be mostly quite competitive with the likes of Honda and Yamaha in the days of the 990 formula let alone win the championship with the GP07, with the cards stacked heavily in favour of Honda as Wosi continually tells us, and Yamaha as he doesn't. The 800 Ducati was however everything Valentino doesn't like in a bike imo, even in 2007 again imo, and not developable into anything he does like in a bike, and I said this elsewhere before 2011.

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hugelean

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Oct 07

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hugelean says:

Not sure anyone believes Nostros ravings that all ducati's problems were caused by Rossi and JB they appeared to start a while before that(on the introduction of the stoner/presiozi lead design and spec tyre rule).. Doohan fan it's an easy mistake to make to compare the 2007 duke to what was happening in 2011. Rossi put the duke on the podium in the dry in 2011!!! when Dovi is lucky to finish in the same weekend, a guy who consistantly beat the 4th(for now) in the title race this year. Given the huge performance advantage and hugely superior tyres and also quite a few years younger and there is nothing to suggest that Rossi could not have been competitive on the duke in 2007, there was zero competition from Honda and Yamaha that year(Rossi aside)..

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